i7 9750h Power Throttle.

Discussion in 'Razer Support' started by CyberLocc, May 17, 2019.

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  1. CyberLocc

    CyberLocc New Member

    Okay Razer, the Power Throttle on the 9750h needs fixed. The 45w throttle made some sense, on the 8750h. Even with it, it was hitting 85c+.

    As I sit here looping CB20, and my CPU Temps are 65c and power throttled, I am wondering why? There is a ridiculous performance cost here for no reason. The 9750h was made to run faster, and cooler, and your stopping that ability.

    Please post 9750h owners, your results and lets tell razer this needs fixed, this power limit needs raised. Every single 9750h laptop to come is going to decimate the blade that is artificially gimped.
     
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  2. Joikansai

    Joikansai Well-Known Member VANGUARD

    How high is your cb r20 score and cores frequency while running it. If it’s on gaming mode 65 degrees is great temperature for r20 actually.
     
  3. CyberLocc

    CyberLocc New Member


    Hey sorry forgot to mention those lol.

    CB20 score highest was 2413
    Cores 2.9 - 3.1 That's only after undervolt, without the score is barely 2k.

    I also did some game benchs last night, mostly for settings learning, so SoTR Benchmark, the GPU maxed around same 70-75ish, and the CPU Around 70. After an hour of hitting it.

    The temps are great, I fully agree. The performance is horrible, there is alot more performance in that 9750h, that's being limited for no reason.

    Prethrottle when the CPU is running at 4ghz on all cores, and pulling 80ws, it hits 70-72c then the power throttle kicks in. Another words we don't need this throttle.

    Whether that's a testament to Razers new cooling Design, or the 9750 or all of the above, the power limits needs to go.
     
    0V3R_K1LL likes this.
  4. Joikansai

    Joikansai Well-Known Member VANGUARD

    Lol you don’t need to run an hour SoTR benchmark just run the game, see after that all data with HWinfo64 sensor.
    Every manufacturer has their “answer” this 6 cores to intel, keep in mind this’s still 14nm chip like last 8750H with higher boost frequency, and Razer by power limit to 45Watt. I gave Link notebookcheck review about other thin light laptop in main thread checked that? and it throttles a lot, and Lisa from mobiletech just make review even on well known brand Alien m15 with 8750H it runs hot.
    Razer usually improves it on long run, I remember first cinebench r15 run was never hitting 1100cb, but after several updates I could hit 1200 in multi run. Probably it would be similar with 9750, after several update it’ll be better. Letting max cpu performance maybe can bring overheat issue for users who doesn’t monitor the temperature, which is mostly I think.
    There’s a way that may avoid this with a tweak but it’s on your own risk if you want to try, just pm me. I choose Razer solution over that though and reset it because I prefer cooler system than running on max boost frequency, there’s no huge performance difference in SoTR only add extra heat,
     
  5. CyberLocc

    CyberLocc New Member


    I didn't run the bench for temps lol.

    I was running the bench, to adjust settings to see what I liked best as a high FPS/Settings, at different resulotions.

    I just sold my desktop for a laptop, (which I will probably add an EGPU to soon.) As my desktop was too big, and I needed the portability, rather than buy a Laptop and keep desktop, I decided to trade for the laptop.

    So I had to play with the settings and such, to see what I would be okay with. I came from a desktop with a 2080ti and a i9 9960x lol. So completely different worlds.

    My monitor is a PG27UQ, when I bought it, I had a 980ti, and the plan was, 1440p and some settings down, when FPS mattered (up to 144hz) and 4k when it didn't. With the 2080ti, I could obivously max out all at 4k and be well above 60. Now I can't, so I was doing settings runs, and seeing the FPS and difference in looks.

    Now at 4k the CPU throttle doesn't matter, the CPU is running at the full 4ghz as the demand is not large. That's not issue, it's a problem on CPU tasks, and CPU heavy games.


    I understand the thermal issues, however as we seen with the last blade 85-90c was fine. I had the 2018 model, right before this as Best Buy had it on sale, I tried it first, then when this finally was in stock, sent that one back and got this.

    My 8750h / 1070 would have temps in the 80/90s, so the throttle made sense. But like I said, it does not make sense now. The temps are much much better on the 9750h, so we are losing performance for no reason. Other 9750h laptops, are getting 2900-3000 in CB20, where my blade is getting 2400.

    Now if it's a wall, IE like thermal throttle, where the system simply cannot go further. That's fine, I understand, it's not though. It's an artificial limit with no reason for it to be there. It had barely any reason on the 8750h version, where it was losing to lesser laptops. The new System with better cooling there is even less reason.

    A return of the creators mode, would be helpful, if that upped the wattage allowed to like 55/65. And had to be toggled, to allow either or.

    I don't care if the temp is 65 if it takes 2x as long to render.


    Hopefully like you said, they will raise the limit themselves and the score will improve in time.
     
  6. Joikansai

    Joikansai Well-Known Member VANGUARD

    Yeah here’s different world, you can’t water cooling the blade lol. Theoretically yes without power limit it should be around 3000, mine 8750H was 2800, I think that was with imon tweak or default, I forgot recently I run it without it was 2300. Do you have links for that 3000cb r20? I was curious about clock frequency and don’t tell me it’s a tank laptop.
    Creator mode is great idea, let them look at this thread, yeah on gaming you don’t need 45 watt~ 25 watt I’m hitting 3,9, but for rendering works it would help a lot.
     
  7. CyberLocc

    CyberLocc New Member


    Nope not a Tank its a Zephyrus 502. Which is not only as slim as the blade, its cheaper, like I said, an Inferior laptop is getting 600 more points....

    https://www.ultrabookreview.com/27050-core-i7-9750h-benchmarks/
     
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  8. Joikansai

    Joikansai Well-Known Member VANGUARD

    Thanks for the link. Quite promising at first read but that was not happy ending story lol.
    Apparently they could set well imon value on core vr setting in bios (from undervolting value that isn’t so low, 6700HQ was around-140mV, 7700HQ and current 8750H is -120mV stable that a lot users use), it’s exactly what I experienced, with setting imon in different way, it makes automatically uV-ing some value that made (tweaked) 8750H only could hold around -70mV in my test. It could spike to even 4,1 and mostly 3,9 (remember it’s 8750H), but thermal is higher than Razer power limit that on some demanding titles like far cry 5 was hot as in the hell, in 90ish area, pretty similar with that Zephy 502, only better...not hitting 99.
    That balanced mode that’s still too hot .This, this, and this are proof for having inferior performance, and even with undervolting it is still hot (good that they don’t show previous HWinfo64 page it’ll be full of red values:wink_:. I don’t think this laptop would last long on such temperature, probably they’ll do power limit as well like Alien and Apple do, after users complaining the thermal issue.
    But it was great idea if Razer can increase power limit on creator mode which demands cpu power more than gpu, and hope a happy ending story on gaming usage:smile_:. I think asus doesn’t find sweet spot yet on gaming usage that make such hot temperature maybe they’ll also optimize the setting for cooler gaming temperature.
     
  9. CyberLocc

    CyberLocc New Member

    Well they removed Creator mode on the new Blades. So unless they add it back, increasing power for Creator Mode would be a waste.

    Like I said, during the burst to 4ghz all cores, it's in the 80s. 85 max. That is a perfectly acceptable Temp for the Blade. A 65w limit would still give that.

    Even the Dell (non AW, and AW) have 55w limits.
     
  10. Joikansai

    Joikansai Well-Known Member VANGUARD

    I see, Funny it was one new feature on rtx Blade. Can you upload screenshot like this? (Ignore the green Mark) A83AA09F-086A-4138-9C0E-962264CF2BC4.jpeg

    I don’t really know about Dell and alienbook, but I know Dell still holds laptops mobo dead record in a single users 15 units within 5 years from various Dell brands according NBR forum, they always put performance on the top, but once starting new categories, thin light they also being the hottest, I mean by far lol.
    93C001A7-F4A9-4459-BA15-A4A56DBF1C01.jpeg
     
  11. CyberLocc

    CyberLocc New Member

    I tried reinstalling Synapse as well, after you asking for a SS (this was pre reinstall) as I thought it was strange too. After reinstall still no Creator Mode.

    However I am trying again, This time I fully removed all Razer files from the program folders (including program data) and am reinstalling. We will see what happens. I may try to grab the Synapse from the stock drive as well and see if that has Creator, as this is not the Stock OS on my current drive.

    Edit: I completely removed all traces of Synapse and Reinstalled it, and still same thing as I SSed. So unless, something is weird for me, for the way I got synapse (off non Razer Windows) Creator Mode is Gone, and Fan Set is back, as I shown.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: May 18, 2019
    0V3R_K1LL likes this.
  12. Joikansai

    Joikansai Well-Known Member VANGUARD

    Thanks for screenshot, do you have afterburner? Can you check if there’s some overclocking value applied on this mode?
    This’s SS from RBA 2018 1070maxq, on gaming mode it applies automatically core +100 and memory +300 with cpu tdp locked to 45 watt (different bios version apparently different, some reported 35 watt and some more than 45 watt) compared to balanced with no gpu OC and tdp set to 25 watt. If creator mode “maximizing” cpu performance to 45 watt, theoretically by reset per Afterburner to 0 it’ll bring “creator” mode, so I don’t really need creator mode personally. But I heard that on RTX model there’s no GPU OC applied so users have to do it manually. If this’s right there’s no difference between creator and gaming mode, I’m not quite sure though since I don’t have rtx model. Maybe that’s why they pulled off this mode. In stealth 2019, there’s no gaming mode only creator and balanced apparently, acts like balanced and gaming mode on RBA 15 2018.
     

    Attached Files:

  13. CyberLocc

    CyberLocc New Member

    Yes I have AB, no it does not overclock the GPU, nor the memory.
     
  14. Firebat246

    Firebat246 The One

    I'm going to look further into this please keep us updated
     
    CyberLocc likes this.
  15. CyberLocc

    CyberLocc New Member


    Okay so did some more research today :).

    Both the CPU and GPU are taken care of the same in the New RB15.

    In Balanced Mode, the CPU is limited to 35ws, and the GPU at 80ws (this is what a Normal 2070 Max Q is supposed to be)

    In Gaming Mode, the CPU is limited to 45ws, and the GPU at 90ws (this is not what Normal 2070 Max Q is supposed to be, however we knew Razer had the Higher TDP part, its one of the reasons I chose the Blade.)

    Temps like I said, are still great, and thats without UC or Repaste. When I UC, temps stay pretty much same, however clocks go up. Without UC on CB15/20 I max and stay at 2.9ish, with its 3.2ish. I havent had much time to UC, I can say that I have gotten as high as 170mv during load and been fine, not 1 BSOD. That is under load when wattage is capped so clocks are dropped however, daily use may have issues.

    Honestly, to me what I would like to see happen.

    Gaming Mode already increases the TDP of the 2070 (and 2080 for that model) by 10ws, do that for the CPU. Give us 55ws on the CPU in gaming mode, and then set a temp throttle at a low point. The Mac temp throttle I dont see as an issue, as it lets the system be all it can be (Mac OS is also more efficient) however with the Razer, it sucks to feel artificially limited. The System CAN do more, and that is why this is irritating, it CAN cool more, and perform better.

    85c is not going to ruin the chip or the laptop, give us 55ws and set T1 at 85/86 and T2 at 90, it will never go over 90, and it will be a heck of alot faster. The Dells even give 55ws, and that is saying alot lol. However dont do the 85 T1 limit if you dont want to, just give us "Extreme Gaming" mode and allow us the 55w CPU and let us choose if we want the heat or not.

    I attached pics showing the GPU Wattage Throttle, Which btw I see as a perfect solution, especially as I can get a 185mhz OC on the core in my limited testing :) Havent messed with the Memory much, its Sammy, and my Experience with RTX sammy memory I am expecting at least 7000 to be doable. Anyway, Clocks dont change, Wattage limit does, which makes a higher boosting card, and Manual OCs possible.
     

    Attached Files:

  16. Joikansai

    Joikansai Well-Known Member VANGUARD

    2070maxq GPU tdp is 80 and 90 watt, some brand like MSI gs65, gs75, Aero 15, Triton use 80 and Alien m15, Zephyrus use 90 including Blade 15, it makes sense that on balanced mode it’s-10. To get 90 watt gpu they do cross vbios flash (under their risk and not sure if VRM can supply enough voltage to run it probably, since it’s designed to run on lower tdp)
    Intel cpu tdp I think you know it already, and because cpu is the hottest part from Blade, from gen to gen and intel keep from gen to gen same 14 chip with more cores and higher boost frequency, all manufacturer limiting the tdp depends on their cooling system. Did you try playing far cry 5/Anthem, AC Oddysey/Original, Shadow of the tomb Raider etc without undervolting (our of box condition)? A lot users doesn’t know how to Undervolting and probably This’s why they at first limiting tdp to 45 Watt and as I mentioned before with some optimization hopefully it’ll be increased without a lot extra heat like my 2018 model once.
     
  17. CyberLocc

    CyberLocc New Member


    TDP for the 2070 Max Q, is 80w stock, with a 115w limit imposed by Nvidia. AIBs can use anywhere between 80-115.

    Intel doesn't force TDP either. 45ws is the minimum TDP for the chip, it only applies to stock clock. Stock clock on a 9750 is 2.6.

    Anything you get past 2.6ghz at 45ws, is just Silicon Lottery, plus Intel Underrating the CPU, to account for degradation. You will never achieve anywhere near Max turbo with stock TDP.

    Yes, I told you I UCed, the gains were not much. With a UC, my cinebench 15 score is 1100. Which is not acceptable when the CPU is running plenty cool.

    As far as knowing how. I have been a hobbyist overclocker for 18 years. Likely am on Timespy top 100 right now still from my 2080ti benches (I was in 57th SLI/67th SC) before selling my TIs. I know full well how to UV/OC :).

    UVing is not going to change temps with this system. Not decrease them anyway. If you are using the included screen at 1080 with up to 240hz. The CPU is the bottleneck in that scenario, if you UV the CPU the clocks will simply increase as they can. This will not change the wattage, therefore given a good stressful AVX load, the heat will be the same, the clocks will just be slightly faster.

    I already did play SOTR, well benched it, however the situation is the same, as far as this discussion. I have not gotten to give Odyssey a try yet, hopefully tommorow I can sit down and do some real gaming and fire up Odyssey.

    Like I said, Razer is selling their own cooling short here. My prior blade 8750, ran at 85-90, where this one runs at 75-80, there is thermal headroom in this machine. Even at 75 the fans are silent and still able to cope. This is why I have always not liked laptops, I like control. However need won over preference this time around.

    However, Nvidia has been getting that way even on the desktop parts. Don't get me wrong, Shunt Mods, Zombie VRMs ect have always been a thing, however now it's becoming main stream because of the ridiculous locking down.

    Also a minor correction. While you are semi correct it's misguided.

    CPUs are not as hot as GPUs. GPUs dump much more hear into a cooling system. They are more efficient at transferring their heat to a cooling solution however.

    Heat from a CPU or GPU is a direct result of Work. Given the same load equivalent (really hard to do, but theortical here) a GPU, will put more heat into a cooler than a CPU. More wattage, more heat.

    CPUs commonly get a rap for being hotter, as they seem that way, they are not however, that's simply due to the design differences, and cooler properties. A GPU is the highest heat generating part in any PC.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2019
  18. Joikansai

    Joikansai Well-Known Member VANGUARD

    207maxq is 80 and 90 watt only some asus Model doing 115watt just like mobile 2080 that is 150 watt but some oem like Alienbook doing crazy to 200 watt, that brings their own known MoBo burnout that they didn’t clear until today and make some improvement quietly by changing MoBo that founded by user. So that 115 Watt 2070maxq may have similar issue.
    Yes I’m agree if you’re looking at cinebench it should be better, if you know well about tweaking you can mode the bios and change imon value on core vr setting (HWinfo64 will Note lower tdp though but I’ll run on 3,9 and sometimes even 4,1 on some cores (8750H), it’s fooling the value to get higher tdp, MSI etc users doing this for getting free from their power limit) until Razer update for better cpu performance. Idk on rtx model but on gtx it made some titles like AC Oddysey and SoTR runs on 90ish on long session gameplay which I don’t like and I never limiting core amplifier like some other do, that’s why I prefer power limit and flash back the original.
    On 3Dmark you can get good physical performance since cpu Test on this only short, with correct undervolting it may keep your 9750H in 4ghz until power limit comes, and with right AB Oc and your silicon lottery luck you can sit on top ranks.
     
  19. CyberLocc

    CyberLocc New Member

    Oh ya, I didn't mean that 115w 2070MQ was a good idea lol, just that's what Nvidia allows :).

    90 is cool, 100 would be cooler, but 90 is cool :).


    As to the Bios mods. I looked at a few Bios mods of past. It seems they no longer work on the 2019 models, as the PL1 is stored in EC not bios. You say a way to make Bios False report Wattage? Link?
     
  20. Joikansai

    Joikansai Well-Known Member VANGUARD

    It’s not easy anymore like some dude uploaded on YouTube. PMed you, good luck:smile_:
     
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