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Jungling: good or bad?

Discussion in 'DOTA 2 Talk' started by shmekermeister, Aug 15, 2017.

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Do you think jungling is bad?

  1. Yes

    10 vote(s)
    38.5%
  2. No

    16 vote(s)
    61.5%
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  1. shmekermeister

    shmekermeister Well-Known Member

    So guys, do you mind having a jungler in your team?
    I started this topic because I love to play jungle heroes (Axe, Legion Commander, Ursa), but at the start of almost every game I have negative comments towards it. Yes, I know you won't see junglers in pro matches because of current meta (and all the things Icefrog has done to gold and experience gained from netruals), but what I see is that there are often taken roaming heroes that don't have so much influence on early game as junglers could have in mid game (speaking only of pub games, of course).
    From my experience, jungle heroes often turn into another core and can change flow of game after 10 minutes mark. And I must say I have a decent win rate with those heroes in jungle.

    So, what you think about it?
     
  2. MaximumBunny

    MaximumBunny Well-Known Member

    Depends entirely on team compositions. It's more difficult in the pro scene because predictability is able to be countered easily. In random ranked matches it's fine.
     
  3. RazerSapiyo

    RazerSapiyo Community Staff Member

    I enjoy jungling in noncompetitive matches. I'm more of a active jungler and will occasionally pop up at the lanes nearby to set up a kill or something. I guess the other type of jungler would be the farm jungler. Regarding the negative comments, i guess its up to the individual? Some players feel that it would be better as the experience leech will decrease on the lanes.

    There are tons of videos on youtube for jungling. I prefer jungling with Axe and LC too. Though I've seen people doing it with Medusa, AM, Sven, Veno, and Monkey King. I think whats important is seeing the effectiveness of the jungler after 10-15mins. I feel from the Item\Time taken, it would be good way to measure how successful the jungler is.
     
    TunaCookie likes this.
  4. shmekermeister

    shmekermeister Well-Known Member

    I mean, I opened this topic because almost every game I get accusations of ruining the game because I am going jungle, and in the end it (usually) shows as a good strategy.
    With Axe or LC in 10 minute mark I usually have blink dagger, while with Ursa I go and kill Roshan. Everything after that is just steam roll if no one feeds like maniac.
    For example, last week I got tons of insults from one person when pointing towards the jungle with Ursa. One of things he said: "It's my birthday today. Thx for ruining it.". After the game we won (I had score with 9 - 1 - 15) I congratulated him on his birthday.
     
    TunaCookie likes this.
  5. firdaus_yahaya

    firdaus_yahaya New Member

    i think jungling is good for some hero like axe, lc, enigma, sven.. they can farm more efficient when they jungling because they dont share the experiance with any allies.. they can become fat more faster if there are support that help them stacking the creep.. for example, cm stacking the ancient creep while sven farm at other nc, after cm make 3 stack of ancient and sven got mom, lvl 3 cleave, lvl 2 warcry and ulti. sven can take the stack with ease. i think this is a best strategy to jungling.. don't you guys agree with me? or there is any other better strategy?
     
    TunaCookie likes this.
  6. shmekermeister

    shmekermeister Well-Known Member

    I agree with you, but what I wanted to know, is jungling really so bad in global? Because people are flaming since start.
     
  7. firdaus_yahaya

    firdaus_yahaya New Member

    for me jungling is essential.. not a single ti match that i say that had no jungler.. like my commend if you agree.. only the new player that flaming.. like my commend if you agree with me..
     
  8. I think the reason you catch so much flak for jungling is you may get your blink by 10 minutes but what happens to your lanes during those 10? Do you lose multiple lanes that could've been won with another hero choice? Losing two lanes handily isn't going to be solved by just getting a blink dagger if that makes sense.
     
  9. -Xeph3r-

    -Xeph3r- New Member

    Not bad if you farm fast. If you pick LC is bad always xD
     
  10. shmekermeister

    shmekermeister Well-Known Member

    Well, the lane that suffers most is safe lane, because you take jungler instead of 2nd support. But, after that you get "another core" that has immediate impact on the game (if he farms his dagger). Plus, it can here and there help his teammates on safe lane.
    To be honest, I think that LC is one of the safest in jungle (in terms of dagger wielders). Moment of Courage and Press the Attack are both awesome skills for jungle, so you don't have to spend gold for healing items or time/courier to get them.
     
  11. iubjaved

    iubjaved Active Member

    Jungling in this current patch is bad due to exp nerf, unless you play a bloodseeker or axe jungle. I have tried both and they are still efficient.
     
  12. Farees_Raza

    Farees_Raza New Member

    In pro matches it's probably a terrible idea since everyone are amazing players and they will counter easily. In pubs, especially lower brackets, players don't really pay attention to someone who's not on the map. They'll just try to farm in lane and get kills giving space for the jungler. That's why they're so much better in normal games. In the pro scene, the enemy team will almost always make sure to stop the junglers farm by ganking with a smoke while they're hitting creeps. That's why it doesn't work at a higher level.
     
    RazerSapiyo likes this.
  13. shmekermeister

    shmekermeister Well-Known Member

    Exactly! That's why I am giving a shot here and there in pub matches. And I am rarely countered.
     
  14. EndlessEnvoy

    EndlessEnvoy New Member

    Give this guy a beer. The jungling in pubs give you a surprise factor because they never gonna gank you.
     
  15. angkaiwen

    angkaiwen New Member

    i think that jungling was still pretty viable pre-7.0 until the changes to the neutral spawn timings and the drastically reduced gold and exp gain from neutrals. add that to the nerfed hand of midas and yeah its kinda hard to justify a jungling character.

    and i am speaking from experience because i play with a regular bunch of friends sub-3k mmr (yes i know) and i used to particularly like flaunting my efficiency in the jungle and timing fights and pushes around the time i come out of the jungle. like 20~minutes radiance with wk ;) (https://www.dotabuff.com/players/168906643/matches?hero=wraith-king)

    but lately i've noticed that its hard to keep this up. its much better to have a roaming support to try and secure the lane for your mid or your carry or at least cause some havoc to the enemy team. or harass an enemy who is jungling. this meta promotes more fast paced mid game fights and matches usually end by 40 minutes so jungling for half that time is kinda counter intuitive.
     
    Seraphim likes this.
  16. Loyal_Assasin

    Loyal_Assasin New Member

    Well, Jungling is a good option for easy farm and also let safelane core to level up quicker. Despites, it depends on the team composition (In normal games most of them refuse to pick supports). Jungling is not followed in pro games coz i think junglers are easy to gank and requires sacrificing a ward for the jungler instead of a ward that controls rune and lane ganks. Well that's my opinion.
     
    Seraphim likes this.
  17. chesterpatrick

    chesterpatrick New Member

    To me it really depends on the team composition and laning. If you jungle and leave a support on the lane, that's just not a good idea. Most junglers on the lower part of the MMR doesn't even care about laning, they'll just continue farming and blame the others when they lose.

    It's all about team effort, you can't just be happy in the jungle while your teammates are getting picked off.
     
    Seraphim likes this.
  18. Seraphim1989

    Seraphim1989 New Member

    It depends a lot but most of the time junglers will have no impact on the game whatsoever. They will afk jungle for 20 minutes while the team tries to hold the lanes. That means you are either short a roamer of a lane support. Without a lane support few carries in the safe lane will be able to hold their own and farm while if missing a roamer enemy lanes are not pressured thus they can freely farm. Not to mention that fact that if your jungler comes out after 20 minutes with a midas, its an item that has no impact on the game whatsoever.
     
  19. Fm.Nameless

    Fm.Nameless New Member

    jungling is only bad when the team clearly needs a specific role and the last guy go jungle instead of it. It gives you an element of surprise when u have a jungling hero
     
  20. TunaCookie

    TunaCookie New Member

    Honestly one thing i would always get mad about is if the jungler buys a midas. That triggers me so much. So yea don’t buy a midas as a jungler.
    A jungler is good depending on the enemy team or even your own. You don’t want to choose a jungler if the enemy team has heroes like riki or bounty or night or roaming clockwerk. And you also dont want to pick a jungler if your carry is anti mage or spec or any of those carries that take a long time to get online those babies needs at least one baby sitter.
    Jungling is good specifically on the radiant side. Because you can occasionally help your mid lane. Dire side not so. There are many things that can influence when a jungle pick is good quite alot and ive only said around 50% of the reasons. Hmu if you wanna know more
     
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