Razer Blade 14 2016 will the 6700HQ Bottleneck with Core?

Discussion in 'Systems' started by Firebat246, Jul 11, 2016.

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  1. Mindinversion

    Mindinversion Active Member

    Touche' /^^ I'll get off my lazy butt now and swap the 1080 around and see what I get in firestrike with the stealth. That should at least provide a baseline SOMETHING. [now if only I'd saved my stealth results from last time]
     
  2. Firebat246

    Firebat246 The One

    Play some games too! Crank up all your settings.. render resolution at 200% as well in overwatch. What other games do you have you can try?

    Also this is the best 1080 score I could find for 3d Mark using a 6700hq which would be the same as the Blade 2016 has. Notice the graphics score though.... wow. This is using a Alienware as you can see from the reslults.. so leads me to believe a graphics AMP is connected.

    http://www.3dmark.com/fs/9221211


    Here is a bench from an Alienware 13 with the same processor as the stealth... and using a 1080.

    http://www.3dmark.com/fs/9238951
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 5, 2016
  3. Mindinversion

    Mindinversion Active Member

    http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/13127850?

    I can't run 200% on the stealth in Overwatch, it crashes with rendering device memory full. Everything I have loaded on the stealth right now consists of Blizzard Entertainment software, so not a heck of a lot I can run [space constraints] I'll address that 3dmark score in a sec.
     
  4. Firebat246

    Firebat246 The One

    Do you happen to have WoW? We can probably work with that too.. if you follow the settings how I have it on my sli rig, lol.
     
  5. Mindinversion

    Mindinversion Active Member

    I have access to my trial edition. Keep in mind, I'm running everything @ 3840x2160. Correct me if I'm wrong, but IIRC all those larger MSI notebooks come with 1080 by default?

    SO here's the Failenware specs
    3DMark Score
    16026
    Graphics Score
    23762
    Physics Score
    9912
    Combined Score
    6370
    Graphics Test 1
    114.62 fps
    Graphics Test 2
    94.04 fps
    Physics Test
    31.47 fps
    Combined Test
    29.63 fps

    And here's my overclocked 6700k @ 4.7 Ghz with GTX 1080 VERY lightly overclocked [mostly just power boosted and fan ramped up]

    3DMark Score
    18271
    Graphics Score
    22331
    Physics Score
    14834
    Combined Score
    9063
    Graphics Test 1
    108.11fps
    Graphics Test 2
    88.11fps
    Physics Test
    47.09fps
    Combined Test
    42.16fps

    So aside from Physics, this tells me that his ALIENWARE LAPTOP beats the carp out of my desktop setup. You'll forgive me for stalling on the whole core thing, but either he did something I'm unaware of to boost his score, or I have a performance issue . . . somewhere???
     
  6. Firebat246

    Firebat246 The One

    There were people that said the bandwidth was supposed to be better from the port of the AMP vs Thunderbolt 3..... but I really don't think that's true.. and the results would NOT vary that much. It's way too big of a difference to be bandwidth.. especially because even a 10% loss would not put you as low as your score is. heck even 15% would not drop from 22000 to say 16000 for graphics. That was the top score which usually is heavily OCed but I have see others not super far from that. So what gives?? The Core simply can't be that crippled compared to the AMP. All the other specs are the same...
     
  7. Mindinversion

    Mindinversion Active Member

    No, but at that point the GPU *IS* CPU bottlenecked in my case, because of the 6500u. Which means you're 100% right, need a 2016 blade to test apples to apples, and I just don't have one.

    As to the alienware score, I'll be the first to admit I barely overclocked my 1080 and it's a Founder's edition card. . . but seeing his GPU score higher than mine REALLY GRINDS MY GEARS. . . . I need to fix that ; )
     
  8. Firebat246

    Firebat246 The One

    Are you going to test your core with firestrike again? Wanted to see what you came up with even with an overclock. We can use the Alienware 13 as a baseline as it has the same CPU as yours.
     
  9. Blade 2016 6700hq + Core w/ PNY GTX 1080 FE

    http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/13129667?

    Just now, the score doesn't change GPU wise. The Thunderbolt 3 is the bottleneck. This is on an external monitor (Asus 4k) running all default test settings (click run, that's it). Take it as you wish but there just isn't anything missing here in the equation.

    - Dave Lee is in the same ballpark.

    http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/13129808?

    Firestrike Ultra gets me 4640 compared to Dave's 4650 with the same Blade 2016 + Core + 1080 FE. So those scores are correct, your seeing a 15% loss, 10% in absolute best case scenario. For what the Core is it's pretty slick, it's not made to replace a full blown desktop setup or a 10 pound desktop replacement laptop setup lol.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2016
  10. Firebat246

    Firebat246 The One

    Are you able to OC that GPU and see how much of a change you see?
     
  11. KakashiSharingan

    KakashiSharingan Active Member

    No, the CPU would not be the bottleneck. I'm quite sure thunderbolt would bottleneck the GPU before that quad core i7 would. I'm currently using the blade but I highly doubt I'd need the core any time soon since I just play at 1080p.
     
  12. Firebat246

    Firebat246 The One

    Here's my main problem with the whole idea of a bottleneck. I don't think i'm being unreasonable but hear me out. The alienware AMP has been out for a while now... and performs just awesome. Unfortunately when Dell bought Alienware there stuff took a big dump. Their laptops are just not what they used to be and they never will be again. They are losing the ability to be upgraded and moving towards BGA which sucks.

    Now I understand these Razer's are BGA but they are also WAY thinner and just a totally different beast and I appreciate how sleek they are. That all being said, Razer releases this Core that is going to compete with other eGPU units.... but if the bottleneck is what's causing the lower scoring/performance that's crazy. The difference seems to be absolutely HUGE compared to the AMP. It literally runs circles around the Core. I just feel like Razer had to have planned on the competition and if TB3 was not a great answer for future proofing with desktop GPU's, we are back to Dell owning that market. I am not counting the other companies getting in on the eGPU game either.

    I hope there is more to this than calling it at TB3 limitations and hope it wont have to wait another year or two before they can compete with someone like Dell.

    I bought the Blade.. I believe in Razer.. and I plan on getting the Core. So you can see my worries!

    So did some digging and found this.

    http://www.ultrabookreview.com/10761-razer-core-review/

    In the review he says how the bandwidth of TB3 is not being capped with the 1080. He proves this by overclocking the 1080 a bit and getting 1000 point boost in his graphics portion of firestrike. If TB3 was limiting/capping speeds an OC would not yield much or any benefit. At least in theory this makes sense to me.

    This leads me to believe that there must be another reason (maybe drivers) the alienware APM achieves much higher scores with the same gpu/CPU combo.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 5, 2016
  13. Haven't gotten around to overclocking yet because of that exact review, didn't seem like the benefit net that much benefit in real world gaming. Going from 16680 to 17785 (6% gain) isn't too crazy much in Firestrike considering the desktop use pulls 22245+ in the same test, that still shows a bottleneck on bandwidth. Your getting more performance from an overclock but your still losing that 15% or so, on a desktop a similar overclock to close to 2000mhz on the core nets 26000+ graphics score (16% gain). So the 1000 point gain on the core equates to a 3700 point gain on a desktop for the same clocks pointing at a bandwidth bottleneck, 10% gain difference in the same overclock.

    I think part of the issue is how many "lanes" can be handled by the mobile chipsets (alienware as a an example), reason the alienware amplifier is PCIe Gen3 x4, mobile chipset can't handle x8 or x16 lanes. Most MXM modules in a laptop (GTX 980m MXM) are x8, so those laptop MXM graphics already have an advantage. Not sure how Thunderbolt 3 handles traffic, and how many lanes it supports (is the Core x4? Not sure), how much overhead does Thunderbolt 3 have via it's interface compared to a straight PCIe connection (no protocol overhead), etc. Remember the Core is designed with daisy chaining in mind with TB3, usb ports / hub, ethernet. Even if you don't use them you still have overhead from the controller, not putting things down those lanes helps keep bandwidth free for your GPU but it still incurs some overhead. Alienware amp is dedicated direct plug PCIe Gen3 x4 port, like running a ribbon cable from a PCIe port on the laptop itself. No overhead or other ports / chaining.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2016
  14. Firebat246

    Firebat246 The One

    The weird thing is based on that review it does seem like the TB3 can handle faster speeds or else the OC would not work. With that logic....Getting a 1080 ti in the future may yield a 20k score lets say because of how much more powerful the card itself would be. The part that doesn't make sense to me is it SEEMS like the speed is not being capped per say... but as you said just a percentage loss. So you just have to spend more money on a better card to get the performance you want.
     
  15. hero111_no_id

    hero111_no_id New Member

    Firebat246 have you a razer core with your MSI GT72 ?
     
  16. Firebat246

    Firebat246 The One

    I don't have a core yet and my other laptop is a clevo with 980m sli not MSI. I'm getting the core with either the GTX Titan X or 1080ti.
     
  17. hero111_no_id

    hero111_no_id New Member

    Do you think my MSI bottleneck the Core ? i can't find anything on it..
     
  18. Firebat246

    Firebat246 The One

    As of right now aside from Razer laptops there really aren't any that work perfectly with the core. Even the Razer laptops have work and tweaking needed for the core. Anything else you can expect different results until further firmware updates and drivers.
     
  19. bowiescompanda

    bowiescompanda Active Member

    @Firebat246 I have nothing substantive add, only to say that every time I see one of your posts I want Five Guys. Please change your avatar.
     
  20. Firebat246

    Firebat246 The One

    Lmao... I actually don't know why it chose that pic of me when I set this profile up. That is a very old pic I had moved from myspace years ago to facebook. Really funny that for some reason that auto selected as my default pic. I feel I need to keep it just because of Five Guys.
     
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