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Razer Blade 15 2018 Overclocking Performance menu in BIOS (for undevolting purposes)

Discussion in 'Systems' started by Goracij, Nov 26, 2018.

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  1. Goracij

    Goracij New Member

    Hi to everyone. I received a shiny (as much as a black mate laptop can be) RB15 with 1060 and everything is great up to the point when I start games. Temperatures rasie up to ~80 with max core up to 90C and cpu starts to throttle. So I looked through the "undevolting" threads and tested Intel XTU app and found stable for my laptop voltage offsets for core and igpu (they are by the way -170mV and -120mV; with these I didn't catch any crashes and the frequencies are stable under load with extremely rare thermal throttling mostly because of GPU). But I have a strange problems with XTU. First - the watchdog doesn't seem to apply the last profile after restart (50% success rate or so). I applied the scheduler to launch the profile after each restart/startup (30 sec delay) but now it can't do it - from time to time XTU corrupts my voltage profile (it can't even show the values of it) and I have to re-make a new one again. I can find that out only via launching the HWinfo app and looking to the offset values. And it's very inconvenient. Also I have worries that XTU can corrupt the profile in some sort off working but wrong way (like setting offset to +500 or something else) and apply it - highly unlikely but still...

    Thus I thought about setting those offset values in BIOS and forget about them for as long as possible. But BIOS 1.05 doesn't have any options on that. I found that those options ARE in bios but kind of hidden. In one of the threads for Razer Blade 15 2017 there is an exhaustive explanation on how to modify the BIOS for Overclocking menu to appear. BUT for 2017 this OC sub-menu is in Advanced menu and in ours it's not (there's no such subfolder in 1.05 Advanced neither there's such a menu).


    Thus I'm not sure if something may go wrong if I'll flash the modified bios image and if there will be Overclocking performance menu option.

    And now my questions:
    1. Did anyone successfully unlocked those options to be editable from BIOS v1.05 on RB 15 2018 and if so, how?
    2. Apparently Synapse app does change some settings in bios while changing the performance profiles (like ASPM). Does anyone know which one? Will there be perhaps such options (like undervolting/fan control) in further Synapse or BIOS updates?
    3. Is it possible to modify Synapse performance profiles? The balanced is the same "hot" (despite the obviously reduced processor power limit) as "Performance" but quieter. For me it's better if it will be as loud as Performance, but "colder"...
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2018
    hrytskivr likes this.
  2. Joikansai

    Joikansai Well-Known Member VANGUARD

    ASPM off directly from bios tweak was to address low gpu performance on Blade 14 2017. I saw Blade 15 user who flashed it too and he can’t seemly unlock overclocking tab like previous model. I didn’t try it because I don’t see the need to increase my 1070maxq performance it’s already above average same class laptops specs. And with gaming mode it can automatically OC GPU by 100 clock/300 memory and increase CPU tdp up to around 45 Watt.
    Yes power limit throttle seemly set on ac firmware or bios for some reason, I think thermal. If you think your machine is hot, repasting with better thermal compound may reduce it. My long session gaming average cpu temperature is around mid 80ish on some light games even high 70ish, some core may go to 90ish. On demanding games to keep cpu temperature low lowering tdp with balanced mode helps a lot. It’s default paste, own it almost 6 months.
  3. Goracij

    Goracij New Member

    Thing is, I mentioned the ASPM only as an example of Synapse interaction with bios but not the goal. To me the 1060 and its performance is absolutely fine for both work and gaming (the only game I play occasionally is WoW which rely heavily on the processor).
    My idea is not to get more performance but to reduce heat. Apparently there's not enough cooling capacity to dissipate full 45W with 60/80W turbo boost powers with stock voltages - the temperatures 85+ ("some cores may go to 90ish") are NOT normal for processors IMO. And the thermal throttling says I'm right.
    The Balanced profile seems OK to me in terms of performance as well but not in terms of cooling. It can be tweeked slightly with undervolting and wattage reduction (for instance 52W with 28 sec window and 70W) that will bring noticeable change in both temps and clocks - absence of the thermal throttling will allow to maintain 39x multipliers and to improve performance. Why Razer won't allow people to do that or do it instead? For instance, if they would lock the offset prefixes to "-" and open the offset option - everyone would be happy...
    But all that is my personal opinion and rithoric questions. But the actual questions were next:

    1. Did anyone successfully unlocked those options to be editable from BIOS v1.05 on RB 15 2018 and if so, how?
    2. Does anyone know which parameters Synapse changes? Will there be perhaps such options (like undervolting/fan control/turbo power reduction) in further Synapse or BIOS updates?
    3. Is it possible to modify Synapse performance profiles - fan behaviour (high/low speeds at the given temperatures), processor power consumption or else?

    Maybe official support can answer some of them?

    UPD: by the way, can anyone tell what is the latest bios/ec for these laptops and what are the changes? I found only 1.05 but saw someone was mentioning 1.06 (if I'm not mistaken)
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2018
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  4. jaseow

    jaseow Active Member

    I have the Razer Blade 14 2017 and I did the bios tweak to undervolt it without having to worry about XTU as I found it reverted its settings back to normal a lot of the time as well.

    I also just ordered the Razer Blade 15 (1060 / 144hz version) and was looking up to see if I could do the same thing and flash the bios to unlock the undervolt settings.

    Its odd that they have locked the setting now and I do not want to rely on XTU and have to always be checking to see if the undervolt is applied.

    Hopefully someone will figure it out of Razer will provide a bios update to allow it.
  5. Joikansai

    Joikansai Well-Known Member VANGUARD

    It’s mostly because flashing it will ruin bios setting. Yes only undervolting that may take advantage for performance on 1070 model it’s already great. I don’t want flashing anytime there’s new bios or firmware update more often flashing there’s more risk user will handle. You can use throttlestop it keeps value better than xtu. I use xtu, because i play with egpu and often doing OC depends the game, if there’s OC issues throttlestop is more complicated to me to handle than xtu.
  6. Goracij

    Goracij New Member

    " Yes only undervolting that may take advantage for performance on 1070 model..."
    Most probably not only the undervolting. It's a bit more complicated than that.

    - "It’s mostly because flashing it will ruin bios setting."
    Like how? Re-flashing bios mod will bring back exactly the same defaults as were there at the beginning. I agree that flashing increase probability of system fail (like boarding to the plane or sitting into a car increase the probability of being killed). But, with official bios update Razer guarantees that it should be fine otherwise it should be a warranty case - just pay attention to recommendations on bios update procedure (turn off the software in background, especially xtu/throttlestop-like) and you should be fine. Or did you mean that "genius users" will mess up the settings? True, but than this approach won't allow RB to be called as an "ultimate performance machine" - it will be one of the many other laptops but with a rainbow backlit keyboard.

    For myself I found the easiest temporary way to solve the high 80-90C temps - switch off the turbo boost for now until I'll figure out how to set offsets, decrease those excessive turbo boost power limits and set more aggressive fan speed profile without the need of checking the xtu or loosing warranty. With Performance profile (only due to the fan profile) in synapse and turbo off (bios) I get ~30% decrease in fps (from ~110 to ~80ish) BUT neither gpu nor cpu will go above 67C or so whatever I do.

    - "Hopefully someone will figure it out of Razer will provide a bios update to allow it."
    I'm hoping for that as well, but not sure if he/she or Razer will. Was the situation with your Razer Blade 14 2017 the same at the beginning of it's production? I mean, clearly RB 15 2018 is roughly half a year out on sale - for a small company it takes more time to fix/update products' software like updating synapse and updating devices' settings. But it would be great to know that there are plans on doing that.
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2018
  7. Joikansai

    Joikansai Well-Known Member VANGUARD

    I’m saying about moding bios on Blade 15. Early adopters had try that but without any advantage unlike Blade 2017. I flashed several times Blade 14, said not worth because there’s possibility you could your 2K machine. When you update officials bios your moding value will be erased and have to redo moding, copying old old one may erase the optimization on new version.
    I never turned off turbo boost, wasting too much 8750H performance imo, play around with setting like synapse and game setting you’ll be able keep it on 80ish average or lower Without loosing too much FPS.
  8. misterg36

    misterg36 Active Member

    If it helps, ALL the full power (45W) 7th and 8th gen intel chips in laptops run at 85-95 without undervolting. I even found this happening on a 17" MSI titan (core 2 hitting 85) and had a Zephyrus hit 107c!!

    There are a bunch of threads, about it here, but the TL/DR is:
    • not gaming mode
    • undervolt by around 130 (cpu dependant)
    • adjust the turbo ratio limits to: 38,37,36,35,34 for 1-6 cores respectively (again cpu dependant - these are my values)

    Should get you no thermal throttling and around 90c when gaming

    This is a good starting point, the blade runs fine at 95c with no thermal throttling (which is the important bit).

    The best you are ever likely to get is 85C with games that are GPU focused (Fortnite, Destiny) and 90C for cpu heavy games (ubisoft, subnautica) as the gpu and cpu fight for cooling when both are hammered.

    I can't help with the BIOS/UEFI, but I find setting Nvidia preferences to use the nvidia GPU to kick in when I start throttlestop means I start it before gaming and get no wierd optimus glitching and decent heat reduction with no noticable power drop.

    An eGPU (Razer core) also keeps temps lower, but still need undervolting etc to keep it below 90C
    Loxodon13 and Joikansai like this.
  9. Goracij

    Goracij New Member

    Decreasing game performance in games is exactly the same waste of processor performance as decreasing multiplicators or disabling boost - in booth cases you are limiting your processor. The difference is only in the approach - in one case you are limiting it by not giving tasks, in the other - I'm limiting it by not giving power. And to me it's more a peace of mind - system won't go out of my comfortable working conditions under any circumstances. I'd be OK increasing frequency from 2.2 to 3.2 (with consequent temp increase to a reasonable ~75C) but to this point it's either-or - I needs parameters access to tune it for my needs.

    As for all the processors 45W and their temps - yes they all do that. But it's NOT OK. I happen to open up XPS15 last year that boiled itself to such a point that the nuts that hold heat pipes and processor heat plate (those threaded brass insert nuts glued into the motherboard) fell out of the motherboard. And the dust wasn't the reason for that. It's only a matter of time how soon those overheated laptops would fail (battery to swell, motherboard fail, etc. - reddit full of the examples of the consequences). And I don't want mine to do that as well.
    Thing is, the fan kicks in and spins up earlier if you are in a gaming mode. For 67C I had something like 4000 rpm on that mode while in balanced I had half of it (by sound) and higher temps. So leaving it in balanced mode don't actually decrease temperatures - they are the same. But only the noise. Are you using XTU or Throttlestop for multiplicators and undervolting?

    It looks like Balanced is:
    - 35W(?) power limit
    - less aggressive fan performance
    - lower(?) thermal throttling temperature value

    While Performance:
    - 45W limit
    - more aggressive fan profile (55C?)
    - 95C(?) thermal throttling temperature value
    That's what I found from the bios image. Unfortunately I don't know for sure those values after Synapse intrusion so, again, fix me if I'm wrong.
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2018
    Loxodon13 and misterg36 like this.
  10. misterg36

    misterg36 Active Member

    I think your assessment of Balanced vs performance is about right.

    I've also heard balanced drops to 25W post release, so that may be a patch - but haven't checked. It is this power throttling that stops the chips overheating, which is why I used it initially.

    Throttlestop is what I use, I found the undervolting (0 cost) and the drop in turbo (especially as more cores get used) seemed to make the biggest difference and almost no performance loss when gaming.

    Thermal throttling is what causes the most damage, as it means the heat cant be regulated any other way - it also makes gaming really choppy. Which is why that's my main target - as long as it's not thermal throttling I'm good.

    Though having said that most of the time I use an eGPU and that keeps temps at no more that 85C - but still undervolted with a small drop in the turbo multipliers (which I can live with)
  11. Joikansai

    Joikansai Well-Known Member VANGUARD

    I meant; If your game cpu demanding like Far Cry, AC Odyssey, use balanced mode to limit the cores temperature, if you’ve temperature room like on 80ish or lower and need more FPS on light gaming like CSGO etc you can use gaming mode aka OC mode. In game Setting meant: if you’ve cpu temperatures issues try to set any rendering process lower, like on gta game by lowering population density or turning off hair work on Tomb Raider or Witcher.
    Limiting core freq to 3,2? You’ll have maybe same performance as 7700HQ, check on cinebench multi score, if it’s 700ish it’s not okay imo, if you’re okay due great cpu temperature it’s your things though. balanced mode with turbo boost on should be around 950~ and gaming mode due higher cpu tdp limit may bump it to around 1150~.
  12. Goracij

    Goracij New Member

    I got almost exactly the same results as guys from notebookcheck. With non-modified profiles only the firs run of benchmark results in ~1100 points, all the consequent are ~950 for both profiles - temp throttling steps in for performance profile and power throttling for balanced one (temperatures are 90+C and 85+C correspondingly). With undervolted processor those are more permanent ~1050 points but only for performance mode (temps are 85+C). But still peak core temps are above 90C.
    With turbo boost off I got 710 points on base clock (i.e. 2.2GHz, performance mode on, temperatures are 62-65C, fans are very quiet and speed up immediately if temps are above 67C) so for 3.2GHz most probably it will be almost the same as for non-modified performance profiles but less heat. And I even more sure that for undervolted, 35W limited, with full multiplier (turbo boost on but long/short term turbo power reduced to 50W and 65-70W) and fan profile from performance mode this laptop will show it's 1050 points at ~75C average and peak core temperatures below 80C. Does that sound reasonable to you and worth of adjustment?
    Unfortunately, I don't have 7700HQ so don't know the results and temperatures for it to compare.
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2018
  13. Joikansai

    Joikansai Well-Known Member VANGUARD

    I had Blade 14 2017 7700HQ cinebench multicore score is around 700, so disabling 8750 as I thought brings to around 7700HQ, temperature is pretty similar on my system which is long session gaming from high 70 to high 80ish range depends games, considering cpu and gpu are around 30% or better. Notebookcheck Test usually is done with no Undervolting and doesn’t take a look deeper of possibility issues like power limit throttle on Blade 15. One of Moderator in this forum already discussed it with Razer Support 5 months ago when I’m not wrong but with no clear solution at that time was even vary, some reported balanced limiting on 25 Watt and gaming 35, other 35 and 45 Watt which is also on my unit. I think if it’s around 1050 with 75 degrees temperature it’s fine. Do you mean by performance mode is gaming mode on synapse? Btw some other users do repasting with better compound like kryonaut and get better thermal and performance due thermal improvement, I’m too lazy doing that and atm temperature is fine, once i asked technical Support concerning cores temperature, they said Far Cry 5 is fine hitting mid 90ish, I’m actually uncomfortable with it and I used balanced mode which is still hitting low 90ish but average would be mid 80ish, got lower FPS but still butter smooth hitting 80fps ultra.
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