Review of Paid to Play

Discussion in 'Razer Gold & Silver' started by mltan, Jan 22, 2018.

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  1. mltan

    mltan CEO Staff Member

    We created Paid to Play as a way to give back to the community who couldn't afford Razer products and to find a way to give free gear (outside the random giveaways we do from time to time) to those who are truly hardcore gamers.

    To be absolutely clear - we do NOT profit a single cent from Paid to Play in any way - there are no ads, no revenue model, nothing. It's basically a cost center for us to give back to the community.

    Since the start of the program, we've given away thousands of Razer gear to gamers all around the world. But unfortunately, we've seen more negativity than ever before - complaints, threats, etc. I've even seen some death-threats made which we do not tolerate.

    Would love to hear more feedback on how we can garner a more positive community in general and to hear how you guys think we can change things around - or if we should review/shutdown the whole program altogether.
  2. Jayorito

    Jayorito Well-Known Member

    Nothing is wrong with the program min don't listen to the haters, we are a community and we will always support you nothing is currently wrong with Paid to pay people are just being salty. I bought my metal key caps with Paid to pay program I 100% support it.
  3. PT.Singer

    PT.Singer Jedi Master

    Thanks for the feedback, sir!

    Is your question regarding just the Paid To Play program or the entire zVault/zGold/zSilver system?
  4. mltan

    mltan CEO Staff Member

    Just specifically Paid to Play - zGold is definitely growing and doing incredibly well and zSilver is our rewards system which we intend to continue growing and investing in. I think most of our paying customers have been very happy with what we've done with them to date and we want to see what else we can do.
  5. FRSR06

    FRSR06 Well-Known Member

    The system is not the problem, it's the people who use it. I mean, all those who complain are basically greedy. They already have the chance to get stuff for free and all they need to do is to play for it. There's nothing wrong with the system, in fact, I am really happy to be able to participate in it. I am still a student so getting free gear just by playing on my free time is definitely great! Though yeah it might be slow due to schedule restrictions but still, I have the chance to get great gear coming from a great company.

    The recent changes sure made some new and even old users hurt but your actions are completely understandable and I support it. Increasing the prices is not such a big deal, all you need to do is to play more. Plus, even if there's a one year expiration, one year is still one year, it's a long time. But most of all, people should play to have fun and not think of how much zSilver they earn. I mean, that may be one of the reasons why some people think the system is too "tiresome" and thus become salty. zSilver is just an added bonus when you play, so it's better to think of it as a bonus instead of something to grind for. I mean, that way, you won't feel "tired."
  6. PT.Singer

    PT.Singer Jedi Master


    It is definitely hard to read all of the negative comments toward Razer when something doesn't go right with Paid To Play. This is coming from one of your paying customers, so I can only imagine what it feels like to be receiving these negative comments (Death threats? That is heavy), when the goal was an altruistic one.

    One problem that I see is one of heart. Yours is too big. You want to make the whole gaming world happy, and want everybody to experience the joy of owning and using a Razer product. Of course, as is natural, when offered free stuff, people are going to take advantage of the system (which we saw with zSilver farming before the coding changes that stopped earnings when AFK for a time), or complain that they don't get the free stuff that they want in the time that they want, which in this day and age is usually NOW. Complaints about things like items out of stock, shipping fees too high, my game not in rotation this month, server/software issues with Cortex not earning zSilver ... all of these show a lack of understanding the big picture, which is that Razer is doing something that no other gaming company does - giving away free gear for playing video games. Completely unheard of!

    The idea of what you're trying to accomplish is fantastic, but it is also opening you up to more negative comments. In the past, most of the comments you'd be seeing online would be from people who had paid for some Razer products, but now you're opening that up to people who don't yet own Razer gear, so of course you'll be seeing more negative comments than ever before. You need to remember that, and just let that aspect of it go. You've widened your reach; you're going to get more negative feedback. It's absolutely natural.

    I think that when you let these comments get to you, you're also losing sight of the big picture. You are giving away items that you could be making a profit from, and doing it in a way that should just come natural to your core market. It's a big thing, and a huge donation that you're making to the gaming community. Don't stop trying to do good because people are complaining about how you're going about doing it!

    The other problem isn't really about the system. Does it have flaws? Sure! What system doesn't? Does the software that runs everything sometimes mess up? Of course it does! Is Overwatch not on the maximum earning list every month? Unfortunately it's not (I just had to put that in there - that's my only wish with Paid To Play: always have Overwatch in the rotation). That is life, though.

    What else is life? The fact that you'll hear a lot more from people with complaints than those who are satisfied. I guarantee that for every person in Paid To Play that you hear a negative comment from, there are at least ten people who have absolutely no complaint at all. For every person who don't have a regular game of theirs in the rotation, there are at least ten people who are playing their hearts out with one of the chosen games. For every person who complains about having to pay for shipping, there are ten people who understand that you are taking money out of your own (and now your shareholders') pockets in order to get them some awesome gaming peripherals. For every death threat you/your staff receive, there are at least a million gamers who appreciate what you all are doing, and wish you all long, healthy lives.

    So, TL;DR - I've said this a lot: you just keep doin' you. You do what your heart says, and keep fighting the good fight. Remember that you'll always see more comments about complaints than appreciation, and that the complainers are actually a small representation of the global gaming community.

    Maybe if the community takes more time to show you and Razer our appreciation, your heart won't be so heavy over these matters.

    I, for one, am so glad that I discovered your brand. You're my favorite CEO, and I talk about your brand to anybody who will listen.
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2018
  7. MaximumBunny

    MaximumBunny Well-Known Member

    Surprising and commendable, but overly idealistic even in times when business is doing well.

    I personally appreciate the program. I would prefer to see you make money off of it though so we wouldn't have to go through periods of inflation like we did in the last update. Whether it's through ad partners or however you come up with, that's the only sustainable long term model. Socialism always fails. It's basic economics and the head of this department should be telling you this stuff already and not be afraid to strongly advise you.

    There's nothing wrong with making money and nothing wrong with discriminating. It would be a nice change of pace to not see you complaining about the negative parts of the community. They will always exist. They're not why you do anything that you do though so why even bring them up? We can't fix stupid. We just love games and Razer products. We're not much more complicated than that. ;)
  8. eugenex6o4

    eugenex6o4 Active Member

    Don't let the haters win.

    Typically haters seem to be more vocal relative to the rest of us who do enjoy the products and services received. Of course, if something goes wrong, the community will speak up but.. the concept of rewarding us for what we already do - gaming - was unheard of, at the time. All the confusion about how vouchers may work, complaints about shipping, etc.. people need to seriously consider the value of what they're getting, from Paid to Play!

    I personally love this program as well. Without it, I wouldn't have earned enough zSilver to redeem for the coveted Razer Chroma Mug that I yearned for when I found out only a select 1337 got theirs... and then you produced a limited set for us fans! :heart:
  9. We should all be grateful of this bonus loyalty program from Razer and it is just their way of saying thanks and the choice to use it is ours, not something that we should complain to them about.

    Just keep on being awesome, Min-Liang Tan. :wink_:
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2018
  10. gereltod

    gereltod Active Member

    I appreciate your loyalty system. But was it so hard warn about price increase?
  11. Aseng0221

    Aseng0221 Member

    Like what I said before, this program will not be a long term. I appreciated what Razer did with this zVault system, especially zGold and zSilver with Paid to play. This is neither Razer nor community problem, it's just because the users' thought. They thought they should get free Razer products from this program, YES, they can, but they want MORE and MORE. They don't appreciate what is Razer doing, that's the problem.

    I am a hardcore gamer. I redeemed Razer Hammerhead BT, Lancehead TE, Atheris, Development kit by using zSilver, but I gave all of these products to my friends and my relatives because I already owned Razer keyboard, mouse and headset. I prefer share the love to the other, introduce them to use Razer products. I think this is what I can do for Razer because Razer gave these products to me.

    Sure I hope Paid to Play program will be a long term program, but if it is out of control, Razer should action.
  12. poh2ho

    poh2ho Well-Known Member

    I think it just boils down to a few things that generated the mass hysteria:

    1. Lack of communication beforehand (For those that are close to redeeming, or have enough zsilver to redeem but was waiting for the vouchers to restock).
    2. The massive increase shocked everyone, especially those mentioned above.
    3. Some of them are casual gamers that couldn't clock in 5 hours a day gaming, as they might worry on their zsilver expiring before they could even redeem the higher valued items.

    As a long time Razer Keyboard owner myself, I am grateful and happy that you have this dream that no other CEO out there is even capable of achieving, by bringing us the Paid to Play Program.

    As a gamer that gave up on DotA2 due to work and responsibilities. However, Razer has given me a revival and renewed interest on new games through the Paid to Play Program, while allowing me to aim for my dream keyboard that I really want.

    It's a great incentive as I am introduced to new games that I enjoy playing like Battlerite, Fortnite, Rocket League and many more. I was even encouraged to purchase Rocket League and Counter Strike to try them out due to the program. Just started my journey through this program, I haven't redeemed a single thing, hopefully I am able to do so. And this update has brought me down back to square one, where I have to do it all over again.

    Just my honest thoughts and I still will continue to enjoy the program and every month's new selection of games that I could try out.

    I would suggest more frequent communication for the first reason. I would also like to suggest perhaps a revision on the increases in the zsilver prices (could be reduced but still an increase), revised expiry dates or better yet, maybe implement some different ways for us to earn zSilver (Earn certain Razer Cortex achievements in certain games, for example level up to Level 10 in Battlerite, or get 10 kills in a game of Fortnite) to solve the last two reasons stated above.

    I believe new mechanics would not only increase the engagements of gamers and the games (which the Paid to Play is all about), it also increases the interests of gamers to achieve and aim for through different methods. While keeping us busy ;)

    I wouldn't know what would be the best solution, but I believe a dash of balance, ingenuity and communication might be the simplest way to calm the confused majority and make the Paid to Play Program even greater!
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2018
  13. R3AP3R

    R3AP3R Active Member

    I don't understand why people can become so aggressive over such small matter! It's like the SEA DotA 2 Server, cancer gamer everywhere! Need to purge out all these cancer out of the system.

    Seems like a lot having complains on the current hike of zSilver on rewards. I personally was feeling disappointed over the hike. I was actually waiting for Thresher but after that I know it's not going to happen. So I quickly redeemed myself a HammerHead BT.

    The thing is P2P is a game, and just like any other game, it has rules. And these rules are made by Razer. Of course, they can amend it anytime as they wish. We are just gamer, and if we want to play the game, we need to abide to rules. If you feeling special somehow these rules don't apply to you, please stop whining and go quit. Go make your own game and rules.
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 1, 2018
    hugosh8kes, WishP, Mr0Flake and 6 others like this.
  14. Deadman2017

    Deadman2017 Active Member

    The whole paid to play system is great from a lot of perspectives for both Razer and the gamers. You offer us many things for doing what we love and more people should appreciate this and stop complaining and threating.

    I read in another post that a lot of people sell the gear that they get with zsilver at ebay and I am quite sure that those are the people that issued the threats at most cause they can't do it that easily anymore. People are greedy and when you try to give them something they want even more no matter how generous you are and thats sad.

    Unfortunately too many people out there don't know how to appreciate such things and think that its all about them when they pose like costumers, cause you can't say you are a customer with zsilver if you don't pay for it, and thats the worst thing of all.

    As @poh2ho suggested more frequent communication and letting people know about such changes and the length changes beforehand might help with some of those reactions of the community. Also the Razer cortex games achievements seems rather good and it can help people get more proactive and another suggestion if that goes though is to implement achievements that you get by playing with friends, for example play a game for 20 hours with a friend with both of you in cortex.

    Keep doing all those awesome things that you do for us and keep offering us all those great stuff and we will show you are love and appreciation now matter how much the haters try.
    hugosh8kes, poh2ho and H00dy like this.
  15. dragomty

    dragomty New Member

    shut it down
    Dissoya and vistar like this.
  16. Plumpak

    Plumpak Member

    Sorry to hear about such negative responses.
    Some mentioned about complaints on "hike of zSilver on rewards" and such. Myself, I was planning on getting Rouge 15,6" Backpack, but it disappeared from P2P program about a month ago. No hard feelings. Will grind zSilvers for something else, as I pretty much would like to have EVERYTHING from the Razer Store ;-)
    Then there was that last update on zSilver redeem prices. Unfortunate, as my "new" goal was to earn for the Orbweaver and it's "price" raised greatly... but to complain about this or shipping costs for FREE RAZER STUFF?? I would be crazy. Plain and simple.
    I would like to mention that I'm really grateful for zSilver and Paid to Play programme. I wasn't a fan of Razer, of course your gear was always cool, but too expensive in my mind. Thanks to P2P I got my first Razer gear and man... really got me into The Cult of Razer - not only as a freeloader, even bought gear for my nephew since then :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

    What I'm trying to say is that negative response might be louder (it always is), but there are many people like myself, who got on the Razer Hypetrain just because of the Paid to Play.
  17. Eishun

    Eishun New Member

    i loved the program. I assume the complaints and threats is because sudden price increase in the zsilver, while not defending the threats, its understandable why people are so mad. All of the price in store suddenly increased by 40%. People who have been working for months, who have reached their goal, suddenly pushed back at least 3 - 4 month away.

    Not to mention people who live in country that is not eligible yet for redeeming zsilver. I've reached my goal of OW BW back in early january, i live in Indonesia and there is no way to redeem my zsilver, i've been trying to find someone from Singapore / Malaysia that is willing to help me redeem for it. After few days of searching, suddenly the price is increased. Of course it devastated people like me, who reached their goal but suddenly pushed back at least 3 months away.

    While i understand the need for the price increase, a 40% increase [almost double] would make anyone mad. IMO, razer shouldve increased it slowly, with item changes but increased price [i thought 91K DA to 110K Destiny DA would be a better move]. increase maybe 5 - 10% but repeat it throughout a year.

    Also while on thread, and i hope you read this, Can you please answer whether Indonesia will be ever eligible to redeem zSilver? I've joined the program back in august 2017, and hoping to be able to redeem the it

    Also a bit off topic

    I got into trouble since my account is compromised and lost all my zsilver [230K of zsilver, at least 6 month worth of zsilver]. I hope its possible to recover them and join the zsilver program again

    I hope you read this, thanks
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
  18. ecaflip

    ecaflip New Member

    Personally, as a casual game player. (10 hours at most per week, half the time it's games that aren't on the zsilver promotion anyways) I honestly lost any and all cares about the program and will simply be using the software as a means of boosting my system for games I want to play. As of posting my zsilver balance is at 6,911 silver, and I've been using the software since October, with the rather high prices on certain shop items combined with the fact that our zsilver starting this october will begin to fade out - I have no reason to participate in the promotional zsilver events let alone use the service at all when my gains are miniscule as it is. I was hoping I could just stockpile and save up my coins over time to eventually cash in at a later date, but with a timer ticking over my head which I know I'll never be able to actually fuffill with the lowest costing mouse being 100,000+ coins, I have no reason to care about zsilver at all anymore.

    If you want to keep the community happy, I could understand raising the prices for products. But one - the price raising was drastically too high, and two - the timer will invalidate those of us who take our time slowly earning our coins. I'd recommend reverting expiring zcoins and reducing the 50% price increase, to 20% at most.
  19. No_GT31

    No_GT31 Well-Known Member

    Hi! Long story short, I really like the way that many games makes us earn 1 zSilver for each minutes played. It allow us to still earn a small amount of zSilver if we don't own/like the games of the moment!

    Thanks to the zSilver & P2P program, I got a Rogue backpack 13.3"!

    Thank you Razer!
  20. Razerfirebrick

    Razerfirebrick New Member

    I think a large portion of the negativity comes from people believing you are using paid to play as a way to data mine information much in the same way Facebook uses their service to exploit the user into giving out data "unknowingly".

    Of course, on the other hand, some people are just loony and will give death-threats over anything they see.

    Just hold out, I am sure most of the negativity will die down over time.

    Gamer to gamer.
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