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Review of Paid to Play

Discussion in 'Razer Gold & Silver' started by mltan, Jan 22, 2018.

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  1. noctisD

    noctisD New Member

    I'm sorry but this answer is absolutely unprofessional. There has been so much change and so many decisions announced in the span of this month and this reply makes you look like a child. Yes, you may be struggling with making a decision but you can't implement changes like zSilver expiring, then making the zSilver price of products go up, and then when you get the negativity, which is to be absolutely expected, you go like, "Oh, it's not working out. People hate us, we should just give up."

    I see a lot of people who are trying to lick your boot here. They reply multiple times and critisize all of the people who "complain," so yes, they are licking your boot even if they are true fans. And this answer is simply asking for it! You're saying, "Don't complain anymore or I'll shut this thing down for real." Can't take the critisism? Or are you just already hell bent on shutting it down and that's the reason you've implemented all those changes and made such an abrupt desicion to shut down the program, and saying, "We may return one day," so that you don't get even more negativity.

    I honestly think this thing has been over for quite some time now. If you've already made the decision to shut it down just say so, so that people just get what they can get now, and not sit around wating for something that will never return. If on the other hand you have some desire to make it better because of the people who support you, then just do it for them and take on the critisism, which you should already be used to. A lot of your products are not perfect, so it should not be anything new.

    And no, I'm not a hater. I've bought more than 5 Razer products since I was a kid. But people complaining is normal. I've complained about price raise too. And contrary to your beliefs, Razer Cortex does bring profit to Razer. zGold does bring them profit. P2P does not bring them profit. Now tell me, how many of you would have looked at zGold or Razer Cortex if it wasn't for the P2P program? Nothing is free. People have the right to critisize. Get over it.

    P.S. I do appreciate the program. I got mad at zSilver prices going up, but I had plans. And who doesn't hate it to have their plans ruined or delayed? That doesn't mean I don't appreciate the program, but playing for 5 hours every day is also not that easy. I appreciate the program but is it really worth it given the current prices? Some people can go out and make a couple of bucks in an hour and save up for the products. It would be faster. And grinding for 5 hours each day can be more stressful and that is why I complained. Ultimately, I did not get what I truly wanted, but I'm still going to get something out of it, so thanks for that!
    Lallaby, osnabb, 91xoL and 8 others like this.
  2. Niarb

    Niarb Member

    I don't know who would complain for getting free gaming stuff but other than that cortex is a very useful program, especialy for those who need to boost their fps.
    PhrostByt likes this.
  3. R3AP3R

    R3AP3R Active Member

    Collecting data doesn't make any money unless they sell the data, which will be a breach of privacy. Like I said, it started with a noble cause but ended with a disaster.
    H00dy and PhrostByt like this.
  4. PhrostByt

    PhrostByt Active Member

    this is the internet, people anonymously complain about everything. why let that effect your decision making? paid 2 play is a big part of why i continued buying razer stuff and staying in the razer (chroma) ecosystem. i even bought the razer sf5 panthera recently and i really love it
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2018
    SantyC93 likes this.
  5. iStinger

    iStinger Well-Known Member

    I don't know much about the stock market so correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't listing Razer on the stock market means other people have a share of your company too, making them part of the company?
  6. 0V3R_K1LL

    0V3R_K1LL Well-Known Member

    When you cant see the product, the product is you. I doubt Razer having all that data doesnt use it to gain some benefit from it. It would be stupid for a company not to do so, Microsoft does it, and its not a breach of privacy if in their Terms of Service they state this. No one bothers reading the ToS anyways so doubt it would be much of a thing either.

    You are right, I supported Razer with or without this program but seeing it being abused by AFKs and multiple account farmers, I wanted them to shut it down and hopefully come up with something better. Or atleast change back to the way things were where you could only get to redeem vouchers if you ordered something else as well i.e order a Deathadder and apply the Kraken code to get the Kraken free of charge.
    DRIFT_IT likes this.
  7. specter00pt

    specter00pt New Member

    this basically summs it up, my opinion aswell
    poh2ho likes this.
  8. Eightnum

    Eightnum Member

    The p2p program is exceptional nobody except you guys thinks about their fan that much. And those who dont see it are blind.
  9. Niarb

    Niarb Member

    To be honest now that im reading various comments, I don't see really negative ones and from what I've read this little time that I've spent in this forum, I honestly didn't find a single negative comment. So my thoughts are, is it possible that the claim about the negative comments being the reason that's closing pay to play is just an excuse? I pesronaly wouldn't mind if CEO just said (We are shutting it down because we have a deficit in the company that we can't aford) if that was the truth.
    frx1337, Lallaby, 91xoL and 3 others like this.
  10. thankarezos2

    thankarezos2 New Member

    i dont get it. paid to play went really good. an old saying goes haters gona hate. i dont see a single reason why this will happen. you remove the paid to play to satisfly the few haters instead of satisfying the so many lovers?
    Niarb, 91xoL, Kcwww and 1 other person like this.
  11. Tyr808

    Tyr808 New Member

    Thanks, @Mitan for the heads up about the program being suspended. It's unfortunate that such a generous offer was met with so much negativity and entitlement (even saw some complaining that the shipping on an already free product wasn't free, ffs).

    I hope there is ends up being a solution to allow the system to remain. I'd just like to share my brief story about how it can bring a lot of positivity as well. I'm a Duelyst player and was never previously a Razer fan (I had heard negative things about the products in the very early days and ended up assuming they were mostly about looks rather than performance, no idea if those old claims were true or not because I'm quite please with what I own now). I made an account to participate in the old Razer Arena platform in some tournaments for Duelyst and ended up following other amateur and professional e-sports players and getting involved in match voting, etc. I ended up with a small stack of zSilver from this and ended up installing cortex which I like as both a game launcher and it handles my wish lists in a MUCH better way than steam and other sites do. I LOVE the features to sort by sale % and dollar value saved. This lets me filter out low value sales like 10-15% off and find the real deals extremely fast. I don't know how much game booster helps because I have a high end PC already, but the automatic power profiles and suspending of background update services while in game is great. I've never had a Java or Windows update bug me while I'm playing anymore, which is honestly worth it for that alone.

    Due to becoming a regular cortex user, I found out about pay to play and for the most part I always played the games that were promoted anyway so between that and buying games via zGold on GamersGate for a discount I ended up with enough zSilver to get an Orbweaver Chroma, which was a product I was interested in mostly due to ergonomics (I get a cramp from gaming too long on a keyboard), but I also liked the aesthetics of it. I ended up really enjoying it and I can say with 100% certainty I wouldn't have risked buying such an expensive mini keyboard if it weren't for this promotion. Now I have faith in Razer products and am well integrated into the various apps and Razer ecosystem. I'm checking for whats new on the reddit and am planning to buy the eventual Orbweaver v2 (assuming the Tartarus v2 is a sign the Orbweaver will be refreshed) I'm also planning on picking up a Razer arcade stick because I enjoy fighting games and I like the way the PS4 stick looks and that it also keeps the core functionality of the touch-pad and other controller features but while also having a tournament mode to keep the input to the necessary functions only. I currently have a good mouse and keyboard, but when they eventually need to be replaced or upgraded I'll most likely be getting Razer products as well because I like the Chroma aesthetics and would really enjoy a matching desktop and synchronized lighting. As an Android OS fan, I'll probably even end up getting the next Razer phone when it's time to upgrade (unfortunately got a phone right before the Razer phone was announced).

    Long story short these types of promotions turned someone who had previously held the wrong or at least outdated idea of what Razer and their products were like. Since then I've become well integrated into the Razer ecosystem and use their software and hardware daily. I've bought a few Razer products as gifts over the holidays, and plan to by more for myself in the near future and I'm also excited to see what new gear is announced. It's very unlikely that any of this would have happened if not for promotions like this.

    To wrap things up, again, while I understand the reasons why the program is being suspended, I'd suggest two big things:

    1) In the meantime while things are being worked out internally, consider suspending the expiry on zSilver. I still plan to use zGold to buy games whenever I can, but I don't buy games that often and the rate at which you earn zSilver like that it's unlikely you'll end up with enough to redeem anything unless you regularly buy every single AAA title that comes out. I totally understand zSilver expiring when you can earn 900 + 40 a day for free, but this will probably be unnecessary once the only way to earn is by actually spending money into the Razer ecosystem.

    2) If you're able to bring back the play to earn zSilver system, perhaps you could get involved with the developers or publishers of the games of the month and use it as a paid advertisement platform. I don't at all doubt that this program resulted in significant increases in daily player counts for the games of the month and that is a HUGE benefit to games. One of the most important metrics people look at when considering buying a new multiplayer game. This could be a thing that both small indie devs and large studios could benefit from and in turn would make sense to give out free products for players. Basically everyone wins. Razer promotes their products and platform, gets people involved with accounts and ecosystem integration, developers get their games noticed AND get daily players almost guaranteed, and lastly the players win by getting their favorite games a population boost (or finding new games to play), while also earning quality gaming products.

    P.S. as an afterthought, I'd love to see the Razer Arena program come back too if there was a way to monetize it effectively. Perhaps it needs to be an exclusive streaming platform or at least integrate well with Twitch? Perhaps like my suggestion to get the developers and studios involved, they could fund the prize pools on their own for tournaments of all levels, or the platform could even be open as an official way to handle any kind of tournament, i.e. any registered and verified user could host a tournament and set the prize pool themselves (perhaps by depositing via zGold?). Anyway, I understand that would require a LOT of programming and continual man hours to maintain and support, so that's really just a side note to the main issue here, just that I really did like the Razer Arena platform while it was around.

    I know this is a huge wall of text, but I appreciate your time and hope everything works out well in the end!
    osnabb, NebulaMask, erio17 and 2 others like this.
  12. Niarb

    Niarb Member

    You people talk as if they are shuting it down cause of 0 profits, when the CEO said that they are closing it cause of people that complaining.
    thankarezos2 likes this.
  13. Tyr808

    Tyr808 New Member

    I addressed the unfortunate negativity in the beginning of my post. I don't believe there is a way to deal with that other than banning offenders because we're talking about a general problem in human nature.

    I mentioned the idea to monetize the platform because it was also mentioned that this was being provided to us completely at cost with little to no benefit to Razer (other than getting their products out there and expanding their influence). For the program to stay successful, they can't simply give out free products forever. I'd hardly call it unreasonable or missing the point to make suggestions about that.

    Ultimately no matter what is officially stated, there are two flaws with the program, 1) bad users (which again can't really be prevented other than by banning them), 2) it's a cost sink and that only further accentuates the first point, why provide free gifts to people that don't even appreciate it? If it was monetized like my suggestion it would end up being directly beneficial to Razer so at least there would be incentive to put up with negative behavior and reviews.

    Negative behavior simply can't be stopped on the internet. Have you taken a look at how idiotic reviews are for free apps on the various mobile app stores, on Steam, etc? Tons of complete morons leaving reviews as a "hostage" with completely unreasonable demands ranging from things like "this app is free and I like it but it wants me to spend money, 1 star until you give me everything for free", or "this game doesn't run on my grandmothers budget phone from 2011". Unfortunately when anything is free and completely open on the internet, the simple lack of entrance barrier results in this kind of crap not being filtered out. There is literally no way to prevent this, only to find ways to filter out the worst of it and report+ban when necessary. I'd wager a lot of these people aren't even aware of how toxic and unreasonable they're being, they're just clueless. The death threat type are certainly an extreme, but the good news is at least they can actually be reported to the authorities in their region since most places take that seriously these days. I suppose as a last resort if analytics show that certain regions don't buy products but are the highest rates of scammers (multiple accounts, bots, etc) and abusive behavior they can simply pull the program from that location. Of course VPNs could defeat that but at least that'll filter out a lot of it.
    NebulaMask likes this.
  14. Niarb

    Niarb Member

    That's what i am saying. I believe that the reason (people are complaining that's why we are shutting it down) is just an excuse in my opinion.
    91xoL likes this.
  15. JungleBeast99

    JungleBeast99 Member

    Please respect each others opinions. We all have unique opinion and no one thinks exactly the same as the others. Stop fighting each other, you are making things worse than they already are...

    Let's wait in piece untill Razer decides whats going to happen with P2P.

    Also, I got one question. I will be happy if some of the official staff answers this. Are we going to get Double cap weekend or Boosted weekend untill the end of the program? Its going to be suspended, okay, but it's not professional from your side to not even change the games we've voted for and stop careing for the program since it's not suspended yet!!! Mr.Tan didnt say it's going to be suspended 1st february, right !?!? He said 1st March and I expect professionalism from Razer untill that day.

    Sometimes I wonder how is it possible so childish decissions to be made from such company. Razer expect not to get even 1 complain for their work(Im juding this on the basis that Mr. Tan is not satisfied with the complains Razer gets for Paid to Play), but if you expect this you have to deserve it!!! And you dont!!! Im really disappointed how probably the whole Razer team got informed for P2P suspension and they threw everything away. Razer ! It's going to be suspended on 1st March, it's not suspended yet and what are you doing for it ? Disappointing...
    Niarb, kliang87 and 91xoL like this.
  16. hasimo14

    hasimo14 Well-Known Member

    it's suspended.... there no update on what games that we voted.... everything is just the same as last month.... if you mean that suspended is stopping everything then perhaps you wrong there..... i guess the suspended means no new update on p2p games we voted until further notice and everything else is working like usual, still can get zsilver from current p2p games and still can redeemed your zsilver
    Niarb and Mysterioo1 like this.
  17. JungleBeast99

    JungleBeast99 Member

    Everyone is confused precisely because of that... No one can see thат "lot of negativity" but the CEO keeps saying that's the reason. Well fair enough, we cant really see everything Razer can see, like private massages etc. so... But i have in mind it's just an excuse to shut it down because of some 3rd reasons we wont ever know. These are really childish moves from Razer and I dont believe this story somehow. You cant expect 0 negativity, are you 5 !?!? But there isnt only negativity as Mr.Tan said, also kill threats, that's really scaring, but for being the CEO of Razer is not surpise (I believe most of the rich famous people receive killing threat at least once in their live) i wish everything to be alright but and not to happen again, these are probably some bunch of little kids not realizing what they are doing.It's not 10th century, there is internet police and kill threat is reason enough for contacting them. You cant threat around the web just like that.

    It's not suspended yet ("I've decided to suspend Paid to Play from 1 March and we'll have the formal notice out in the next couple of weeks.") !!! Thats what Im trying to say. The determined date fot its suspension is 1st march. But the support is already gone, no one care what we have voted for february, boosted weekend, double cap weekend etc.
    There is only 1 deffinition for suspension i think? No new updates is not what suspension means, I guess. And yes stopping everything untill Razer decides what to do with p2p is what i mean and what Mr.Tan said. But notice, he said from 1 March !!! Not february, that why Im disappointed. I agree its still working and we can earn zSilver but the fact the devs did not even bother to change the games we have voted for is enough ....
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 4, 2018
    Mysterioo1 and Kcwww like this.
  18. R3AP3R

    R3AP3R Active Member

    The reason that you don't see negative comments is that they have removed it. Those negative threads or comments will only be around for at most a few hours. So unless you are always active in the forum 24/7 or you got lucky to see 1 or 2 negative things going around.
    NebulaMask, Niarb and Mysterioo1 like this.
  19. Niarb

    Niarb Member

    Depends on what do you mean by saying negative comments. I don't mean comments that contain harassment, I mean comments that contain complains, because that's what CEO said, he said they're shutting it down because many people are complaining and I strongly believe that's not the real reason.
    Mysterioo1 and JungleBeast99 like this.
  20. gereltod

    gereltod Active Member

    Truth is CEO is acting childish here. Yes, I love Razer products, their innovations. But still truth is truth. First he threatened us about suspend paid to play, then after 9 pages of good suggestions, he just simply declared stop it. If his intention was on our side, he could use those suggestions. He just chosen easiest way for them. Think about why people started complain. Before January zsilver increase update, this place was heaven. There wasn't even complains. Then they increased price without even warning. Some people complained about that, and I'm sure people have right to know that before price increase. It doesn't matter you get free stuff or not, people are cooperating with them, even we get free item, we are their partners. There should be 2 way respect!

    Even those who complained haven't right and shouldn't complained & did wrong, Razer's action stopping p2p is hurting other people who aren't complained. Those hurting people are mass part of us. They just easily could ban or do something on those "killers", instead they "banning" whole community. It's like their intention was stop it no matter what even before spread and those complainers is just mere excuse.
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2018
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