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Paid to Play - What's next?

Discussion in 'Razer Gold & Silver' started by mltan, Nov 9, 2018.

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  1. mltan

    mltan CEO Staff Member

    It's been a while since we decided to suspend Paid to Play - and each time I wanted to review it, I would go back to the forum thread - read the posts, and decide that maybe it's not worth doing it.

    We started Paid to Play as a way to see how we could get community members who loved Razer, but couldn't afford to buy our gear, a way to grind and earn Razer products and other awesome giveaways. However, while we had good intentions for it, we started getting a lot of complaints, demands and worst of all - death threats to our team and I decided to put a stop to it.

    I've thought about how we might bring it back sometime and here are my thoughts:

    1. It will be focused more for users of Razer products and services - i.e. it's more to reward our existing customers as opposed to someone looking for a free hand-out.
    2. We will probably want to focus on users of Razer zGold - and that will be the MAIN way of earning zSilver - for those who spend on games etc with zGold and earn zSilver.
    3. We will still have multiple SECONDARY different ways of earning zSilver - it could be Paid to Play on PC, or on Mobile, or maybe through our partners like Esports Mogul and much more. It will still be possible to grind but there will be multiple different ways instead of just one way.
    4. This will no longer be for those who aren't already Razer customers - and using Razer services is going to be the main way to earn zSilver - the other free ways of doing so will be secondary ways.
    5. Anytime it gets negative, people demanding stuff, complaining or death threats we'll suspend it again.

    Just some thoughts about this - it may or may not come back - but just some of my thoughts on how we might evolve Paid to Play.
  2. PT.Singer

    PT.Singer Jedi Master VANGUARD

    You said "for those who spend on games etc with zGold and earn zSilver".

    That "etc" ... does this mean that there will be other ways to use zGold? Like maybe using zGold to buy Razer gear and earning zSilver for purchasing said gear? If so, then this is very exciting. I've been waiting for that announcement since the beginning of the zSystem.

    I'm ready to buy a Razer Phone 2 with zGold ... as soon as they release it in Australia.

    I can't wait to see what you actually decide to do with the program, sir.

    And I'm ready to grind, as well ... hopefully on a Razer Phone 2 ... bought with zGold ... from the Australian Razer Online Store.
  3. mltan

    mltan CEO Staff Member

    zGold can be used for virtual goods like games and digital content such as virtual items only I'm afraid as it is regulated. So it won't ever be used for hardware.

    Now if someday we ever released a cryptocurrency, that's a different story as it would be usable for software AND hardware. But we have no plans for this now.
  4. xonaspt

    xonaspt New Member

    I think it's a little unfair for people like myself who can't really afford razer gear and want to get it for free
    I started gathering some zSilver in the beggining of the year with Paid to Play and when it got suspended i only could win zSilver with the daily reward and couldn't reach my goal to have razer gear, i'm waiting so much time to paid to play to return but you're saying it will not be as free as it was..
  5. mltan

    mltan CEO Staff Member

    Yes. It won't be free as it was. Don't blame me. Blame the ones who started making death threats.

  6. Blazespot

    Blazespot Member

    I think having a razer product would be enough. And for those people who made multiple razer accounts to farm zsilver, you can make them link their game account to their razer account as well as their phone number. I am honestly not sure why people were making death threats. Pay to play was closed a couple weeks after the items in the zsilver store increased so I am sure that had a huge part in that as those who are looking for a great product was close on zsilver so they got angry. But if you limit to those who already have a product or those who spend zGold, I am sure there will be almost no problems with people. Also, don't let the loud minority bother with the silent majority.
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2018
  7. FrozenFireVR

    FrozenFireVR Well-Known Member

    I would much prefer something like Razer Arena than Mogul if we're considering esport voting as an option. Mogul makes it extremely hard and has quite a few issues with people making multiple accounts and so and putting them all at the top. Something more stable than just a leaderboard based would be nice.

    And, just trying here... Is India anywhere on the list for a Razer store? :3 _/\_
    .Surf. likes this.
  8. PT.Singer

    PT.Singer Jedi Master VANGUARD

    C'est la vie ... I'll still get that Razer Phone 2 the normal way, then ... as soon as it's released here. ;)
    SylvanasMage likes this.
  9. ARMOR_152

    ARMOR_152 Well-Known Member

    Sounds good, whatever works best! I'm still loving the Razer Game Store, especially the 4 Exclusive games each week, they're the best deal you can get online.
    SylvanasMage, .Surf., imReqi and 2 others like this.
  10. Tackertyp

    Tackertyp Active Member

    Unfortuneatly I am one of the people, that don't need a new game each month, but play games over years, like cs:go and stuff. That means i dont spend that much zGold. But however, the p2p prgramm was great and i was able to finally replace my like 15 years old Razer eXact Mat with a new Firefly, so thanks for that.

    To this point, i think there will always be mad people on the internet complaining about everything. But I think you did the right step, to suspend the programm, although I think it was a great opportunity for me to replace my old Razer stuff.

    So all in all, I think focusing on existing Razer Customers sounds great.

    Looking forward to see what happens to the p2p-programm and all the new Razer stuff (like toasters...sorry, but had to get rid of that).
    J.O.Z.Y, .Surf., imReqi and 2 others like this.
  11. Jenjar

    Jenjar Well-Known Member VANGUARD

    I like the idea of giving it to Razer customers instead of just everyone having access to it in large amounts, and free little ways are good for the public (Daily login and all of that). I would just like more ways to gain ZSIlver in general now, Mogul is a great way if you are good at predicting ESports teams, but otherwise it is a bit hard to get anything out of it.

    One thing I used to like was the voting methods on Razer Arena, where you would vote and put so many ZSilver in the "pot", and then the people who voted for the winning team would split the ZSilver. Sometimes it would not equal out the same or would give off the same amount, but I used to really like that way.

    Fun little activity's are nice too, things like the current photography contest going on where you can win a rouge backpack. Those could be done in photography contests, maybe photo editing / Photoshop contests as well, just to give an idea.

    Also another thing that would be neat (although it is in a way already a part of Insider Rewards), is to give a certain amount of ZSilver per each Razer product owned, instead of just limiting it to just one keyboard achievement and what not. Some people (including myself) have several of the same products that would be nice to register for a little extra ZSilver, and it would be nice to be based on tiers (so more expensive keyboard would give a few more ZSilver then the less expensive ones), like some other companies do.

    The whole Insider Weekly thing that was going on for a little bit was really nice too, it would give people in the community a bigger chance to show off their setups and chroma profiles and get rewarded for it. Not quite sure why that was stopped anyways.

    Little giveaway type things are always nice too, like the 12 days of Christmas event last year where you would have chances to earn more ZSilver for doing certain things, and those type of Arena giveaways that were done in the past where you could win products or zsilver, etc..

    Just a few recommendations, I do like the idea of rewarding razer customers first though, or at least giving us extra chances to earn ZSIlver.
    YukioSama, Gagner, imReqi and 2 others like this.
  12. .Surf.

    .Surf. Well-Known Member VANGUARD

    This post is really raising up your mood, now i'm not too much focused on games but on the gear itself. Receiving awards in accordance to the Razer Gear owned as well as other "mysterious ways" sounds good to me. We're waiting for changes and of course the most conclusive news at all.
    Gagner likes this.
  13. shmekermeister

    shmekermeister Well-Known Member

    First things first - it's great news that you have some plans with PtP (Paid to Play in further text), because I believe that everyone will be happy with more options to score zSilver. Thank you for that!

    I will try to give you my opinion on each bullet you wrote:
    1. I have nothing against it, but I think it defeats the initial purpose of PtP - Razer products to those who can't afford them. Yes, I know that the program was misused and that it couldn't have a future like that. But, because of that program, I came here to the Insider. And you know what happened then? I stayed here even 9 months after it has been closed, because I can discuss about many things that have or have not direct correlation with the Razer products, because of nice mods and community as a whole, and because you as the CEO of the company who visit this forum and give some inputs from time to time. This is definitely something that no other companies have nor do.
    What I want to say, maybe to think about those who are still not a part of the Razer family (cult) and give them a chance to become. How to accomplish that? Something like much lower rate at which zSilver can be gathered if you have no Razer item or you don't use Razer services. That way everyone has a chance to score zSilver, and it should discourage those who are farming to get zSilver.
    Another way to discourage PtP system abusers is to work closely with game developers who want their games to get to the PtP list. For example, I know that Valve games (Dota 2 and CSGO) have some API which could be used to see if someone is AFK in game or is really playing matches. Probably this is something that you have considered with your dev team.

    2. Here I have to agree with @Tackertyp:
    I am also a person who played a lot Dota 2 and CSGO, and much less some other games. I think that things have changed in last few years: people spend money for in-game purchases rather than to buy some new games. Maybe I am wrong (well, 'probably' is perhaps better word than 'maybe'), but this is the opinion from my point of view.

    3. I can say nothing else but :hearts:

    4. Ah, so it remains for people who don't own Razer equipment to score zSilver. That's cool (and invalidates good part of my post under bullet 1).

    5. It's maybe harsh to punish whole community because of a few individuals, but I do understand. Death threats should have zero tolerance everywhere.
    But don't be too harsh towards the complains. After all, it's in human nature to complain :smile_:

    All in all, thank you for sharing your thoughts with us. Specially regarding those great news!
    Matthew26 and .Surf. like this.
  14. mltan

    mltan CEO Staff Member

    Yes - I'm completely overhauling the system where we move away from the initial purpose of Paid to Play - if we ever bring it back, it will NOT be focused on bringing products to users who can't afford it. All the complaints and death threats etc came from users who felt entitled to something we wanted to do good for them - and yes, it was a small group of people, but I cannot let my team be subject to that.

    The focus will still be on users who are already part of the Razer customer list - specifically zGold users as its the easiest for us to track. Games on Paid to Play will only be focused on zGold supported games, we will give more zSilver to zGold users etc. And the list goes on.

    Finally - yes, there will be still free ways to earn zSilver, and lots of ways - but anytime anyone feels entitled and starts complaining about how slow the free ways are to earn, we will just tell them that the whole point of the system is not for anyone to earn it for free and that there are paid ways to do it.
  15. PT.Singer

    PT.Singer Jedi Master VANGUARD

    Even as he's proposing now, he didn't say that you have to own a Razer Mouse, or keyboard, or any other piece of Razer gear. He said that you have to be an established user of Razer "products and services". So if you don't have money for Razer gear, but still like to buy games on a regular basis, just make sure you buy them with zGold and your zSilver earnings will increase quicker than if you just log into Cortex every day.
    .Surf. likes this.
  16. keryilias

    keryilias New Member

    its kind of weird your letting threats of people who dont matter ruin it for your fans. im sure you get death threats on twitter also will that also be suspended.
    blazeykitty03, xonaspt and .Surf. like this.
  17. imReqi

    imReqi Well-Known Member

    Thanks for taking the time to respond to so many posts in this thread. It's refreshing to have more of a conversation as opposed to a single post. So, thank you.

    Simple suggestion, but can the Insider rewards award more zSilver? Those should probably be looked at since the pay to play option is suspended. I'm newer and never took advantage of that, joining just a few months ago. I just buy all my Razer stuff and use the forums because I love the brand and enjoy it. But let's be real, it's highly unlikely all the zSilver Insider achievements in the world are going to get me a free Huntsman.

    I think you get what I'm saying...I like the community here, and I'm not doing it for the zSilver (well, maybe if the mug comes back). There is an opportunity to revive this Insider community with the proper incentives.
    ks2018 and .Surf. like this.
  18. MaximumBunny

    MaximumBunny Well-Known Member

    I'm looking forward to what you come up with. My only suggestion would be to consider people with slow rural internet so if a paid to play thing was some 80GB game (destiny 2/forsaken expansion on the game store) that we'd at least have some time/days to prepare for it. I'm getting upgraded in about 6-8 months but other Razer fans may not be so fortunate.
  19. App1e

    App1e Active Member

    Cool, I'm want my Razer mug holder so badly.
    Maybe we get something like " play 5 games / ..." in those free 2 play games etc. and not just open game on 15 vm and wait this hour.

    Ps. Pls @mltan Do it for us.I do not eat breakfasts since April Fools' Day 2016
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2018
  20. mltan

    mltan CEO Staff Member

    We'll have different ways of earning zSilver but all free ways will have small award amounts. And yes - it's not meant for you to have all the zSilver Insider achievements to get you a free Huntsman - as I mentioned, we're pivoting it such that those who use zGold regularly will be how you'll get to the free Huntsman (and the free ways are to help you get there faster).
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