Paid to Play - What's next? | Razer Insider

Paid to Play - What's next?


Userlevel 7
It's been a while since we decided to suspend Paid to Play - and each time I wanted to review it, I would go back to the forum thread - read the posts, and decide that maybe it's not worth doing it.

We started Paid to Play as a way to see how we could get community members who loved Razer, but couldn't afford to buy our gear, a way to grind and earn Razer products and other awesome giveaways. However, while we had good intentions for it, we started getting a lot of complaints, demands and worst of all - death threats to our team and I decided to put a stop to it.

I've thought about how we might bring it back sometime and here are my thoughts:

1. It will be focused more for users of Razer products and services - i.e. it's more to reward our existing customers as opposed to someone looking for a free hand-out.
2. We will probably want to focus on users of Razer zGold - and that will be the MAIN way of earning zSilver - for those who spend on games etc with zGold and earn zSilver.
3. We will still have multiple SECONDARY different ways of earning zSilver - it could be Paid to Play on PC, or on Mobile, or maybe through our partners like Esports Mogul and much more. It will still be possible to grind but there will be multiple different ways instead of just one way.
4. This will no longer be for those who aren't already Razer customers - and using Razer services is going to be the main way to earn zSilver - the other free ways of doing so will be secondary ways.
5. Anytime it gets negative, people demanding stuff, complaining or death threats we'll suspend it again.

Just some thoughts about this - it may or may not come back - but just some of my thoughts on how we might evolve Paid to Play.

This topic has been closed for comments

97 Replies

KTheory
as I like the new changes, I do not agree with the amount of Razer silver you can earn by mining or paid to play. Before paid to play you could make 900 silver in a day for playing a couple hours. Now you can only earn 100 a day with paid to play and 133 with soft-mining. (200 in total). I know there are a lot of ways getting zsilver, but many people cant even get on mogul leader boards (like me), Don't buy enough games for Razer Gold to be efficient and are not religiously on insider. With that, I think that the products you can redeem with Razer Silver should have price changes, because good luck trying to get any of the higher costing products. After reading your responses above I feel like this is now 100% focused for razer gold. Which is sad, cause I think the idea of how people who have registered razer products should be able to get more razer silver in paid to play or softmining. Hopefully this will change in the months.

Some math that would put this in perspective
(Paid to play 1 month (3000 Silver)) + ((Softmining 1 month (4000 silver)) = 7000 Razer silver
7000 Razer silver x 12 months = 84, 000 Silver

After a year you are only getting 84,000 Silver, which you can only buy a select few things, and non of their most wanted higher end products. in addition this is dependent on 1 hour paid to play, and 5 hour mining. Again after a year your points begin to expire so you have to use them. In the old system, which I thought was superior you could potentially get 324, 000 Razer Silver in a year.

Just my thoughts.
Just some friendly feedback, but we shall see how this system works overtime.


I totally agree with you, I think they should increase the daily limit
Userlevel 7
KTheory
as I like the new changes, I do not agree with the amount of Razer silver you can earn by mining or paid to play. Before paid to play you could make 900 silver in a day for playing a couple hours. Now you can only earn 100 a day with paid to play and 133 with soft-mining. (200 in total). I know there are a lot of ways getting zsilver, but many people cant even get on mogul leader boards (like me), Don't buy enough games for Razer Gold to be efficient and are not religiously on insider. With that, I think that the products you can redeem with Razer Silver should have price changes, because good luck trying to get any of the higher costing products. After reading your responses above I feel like this is now 100% focused for razer gold. Which is sad, cause I think the idea of how people who have registered razer products should be able to get more razer silver in paid to play or softmining. Hopefully this will change in the months.

Some math that would put this in perspective
(Paid to play 1 month (3000 Silver)) + ((Softmining 1 month (4000 silver)) = 7000 Razer silver
7000 Razer silver x 12 months = 84, 000 Silver

After a year you are only getting 84,000 Silver, which you can only buy a select few things, and non of their most wanted higher end products. in addition this is dependent on 1 hour paid to play, and 5 hour mining. Again after a year your points begin to expire so you have to use them. In the old system, which I thought was superior you could potentially get 324, 000 Razer Silver in a year.

Just my thoughts.
Just some friendly feedback, but we shall see how this system works overtime.


The focus on Razer Gold won't change - and if you don't like the system, you really shouldn't participate and complaining about it (or worse for some other making threats) will just shut it down for the people who enjoy the system. So if you don't agree with it - I suggest you go find some other system that meets what you want.
mltan
The focus on Razer Gold won't change - and if you don't like the system, you really shouldn't participate and complaining about it (or worse for some other making threats) will just shut it down for the people who enjoy the system. So if you don't agree with it - I suggest you go find some other system that meets what you want.

I understand you, it's like a shop. You buy with gold and then you get silver. The actual paid to play is just a secondary way to get Silver. As KTheory said we need to wait to see how it will go. Idk if it's with silver, gold diamond but I'll buy one day the Razer Thresher :3
mltan
The focus on Razer Gold won't change - and if you don't like the system, you really shouldn't participate and complaining about it (or worse for some other making threats) will just shut it down for the people who enjoy the system. So if you don't agree with it - I suggest you go find some other system that meets what you want.


Well I guess its just a change in the vision for Razer gold/silver. I'm not totally against it, and I will definitely be trying out the system (have completed today's paid to play 100 Silver already). Just making a comparison to the Razer Silver before. If people complained and sent threats over before, they will probably regret it now. Anyways, I personally think the system just needs to be tweaked, and only time will tell if it actually does.
mltan
Depends on where you are in the world, in many regions, you can already use Razer Gold for LOL, Overwatch and CS:GO!

would paid to play work for Overwatch sometime soon do you think
Well, I'm gonna go ahead and complain. Don't bring something like this back if it's only going to upset everyone, which is exactly what it's doing.

8. Users will receive 5 Razer Silver for every minute of gameplay, with a maximum of 50 Razer Silver each day. This excludes bonus campaigns such as double multiplier campaigns or more.
9. Awarding more Razer Silver per game activity and/or other Cortex PC campaigns will be subjected to Razer’s sole decisions and changes.
10. Every Razer Silver awarded in Paid to Play and Cortex PC will have 12 months validity period from date of earned/claimed.

Literally impossible for people to get anything more than tiny discounts on stuff. This comes across as a giant 'go fuck yourself', even more so when I read your posts in this thread. I've always supported Razer, because it's always seemed like you guys care about your gamers; you made left handed mice, and I even seem to recall some of your stuff being used by a guy who played games with his feet because he didn't have arms.

Then you introduced paid to play, with the zsilver, and it was amazing. It seemed like you finally cared about your poor gamers, and not just middle class or higher. People who had extremely limited budgets - and let's be real here, with soaring rates of college tuition, soaring housing costs, massively bloated student loan debt, a growing wealth and income divide between the top 1% and everyone else, rising medical costs in the US, and stagnant wages, there are a lot of those people - finally had a way to get some Razer gear. People who otherwise wouldn't be using your software wanted to download Cortex so they could earn points. It got people into Razer, supporting Razer, and using Razer.

And then you removed it. Because some people were complaining, or sending death threats. I've received death threats for being a progressive. I've received death threats for being an atheist, for being Jewish, for being alive. And I'm not famous, I don't own a large company, I don't even own a small company, I'm just someone barely making $8k/year and struggling to get by.

You're going to get death threats. You're going to get people complaining. You're going to have people who hate you, for no valid reason whatsoever. If you can't deal with that in 2018, you may as well hole yourself up somewhere without internet, because you can't escape it.

And now it's back, but in a format that is essentially a gigantic 'go fuck yourself' to everyone who loved the program in the first place, to everyone who has been clamoring for it to come back, to everyone who doesn't have the money to spend on the peripherals in the first place. It feels like a giant slap in the face. I wanted the program to come back, but would have been OK if it didn't--I understand that it was something you were doing to help your fellow gamers, and that it wasn't necessarily profitable [I don't have the data to see how much the program increased the use of your software, to see if you saw increased revenue, or decreased, or any other details], and was possibly even costing you money.

So, if my post here makes you decide to remove it. Fine. That's good. As it stands right now, it's a blighted abomination. It's an insult--a scam, even. There are plenty of people who will use it, think they can save up for a year and a half to get the cheapest mouse option, who will then feel deeply betrayed when they realize their silver is decaying after a year and they can never reach their goal.
ErdrickDragonsbane
Well, I'm gonna go ahead and complain. Don't bring something like this back if it's only going to upset everyone, which is exactly what it's doing.

8. Users will receive 5 Razer Silver for every minute of gameplay, with a maximum of 50 Razer Silver each day. This excludes bonus campaigns such as double multiplier campaigns or more.
9. Awarding more Razer Silver per game activity and/or other Cortex PC campaigns will be subjected to Razer’s sole decisions and changes.
10. Every Razer Silver awarded in Paid to Play and Cortex PC will have 12 months validity period from date of earned/claimed.

Literally impossible for people to get anything more than tiny discounts on stuff. This comes across as a giant 'go fuck yourself', even more so when I read your posts in this thread. I've always supported Razer, because it's always seemed like you guys care about your gamers; you made left handed mice, and I even seem to recall some of your stuff being used by a guy who played games with his feet because he didn't have arms.

Then you introduced paid to play, with the zsilver, and it was amazing. It seemed like you finally cared about your poor gamers, and not just middle class or higher. People who had extremely limited budgets - and let's be real here, with soaring rates of college tuition, soaring housing costs, massively bloated student loan debt, a growing wealth and income divide between the top 1% and everyone else, rising medical costs in the US, and stagnant wages, there are a lot of those people - finally had a way to get some Razer gear. People who otherwise wouldn't be using your software wanted to download Cortex so they could earn points. It got people into Razer, supporting Razer, and using Razer.

And then you removed it. Because some people were complaining, or sending death threats. I've received death threats for being a progressive. I've received death threats for being an atheist, for being Jewish, for being alive. And I'm not famous, I don't own a large company, I don't even own a small company, I'm just someone barely making $8k/year and struggling to get by.

You're going to get death threats. You're going to get people complaining. You're going to have people who hate you, for no valid reason whatsoever. If you can't deal with that in 2018, you may as well hole yourself up somewhere without internet, because you can't escape it.

And now it's back, but in a format that is essentially a gigantic 'go fuck yourself' to everyone who loved the program in the first place, to everyone who has been clamoring for it to come back, to everyone who doesn't have the money to spend on the peripherals in the first place. It feels like a giant slap in the face. I wanted the program to come back, but would have been OK if it didn't--I understand that it was something you were doing to help your fellow gamers, and that it wasn't necessarily profitable [I don't have the data to see how much the program increased the use of your software, to see if you saw increased revenue, or decreased, or any other details], and was possibly even costing you money.

So, if my post here makes you decide to remove it. Fine. That's good. As it stands right now, it's a blighted abomination. It's an insult--a scam, even. There are plenty of people who will use it, think they can save up for a year and a half to get the cheapest mouse option, who will then feel deeply betrayed when they realize their silver is decaying after a year and they can never reach their goal.



Just something I would like to add. With such a low Razer silver coming back in Paid to play, this will probably make more people just buy Used Razer products. Similar to me and my friends, I was grinding for Razer silver last year. Then it got discontinued. However, I love razer products so what did my friends and I do who didn't want to pay full price? We just bought used ones which were sometimes less than 50% of what it cost brand new or heavily discounted on amazon. However, getting people to enter the ecosystem and getting their first razer product, this would probably make them want to get the newest and greatest, and eventually buying brand new products.
Userlevel 7
Glad to see Paid to Play is back, also like to see that War Thunder is coming to it in the next couple weeks! Gonna end up playing much more then.

Like said before, ZSilver is mostly for people spending money on ZGold and buying different things with that, the free ways are just kind of extra and are not made for you to get the best products for free, they are mostly just useful for the small products and the discounts. People complained about getting more free stuff in the past, so it had to stop. Razer is still one of the only company's I can think of that does a rewards program like this still, and the other ones still take months to get anywhere unless you buy products.
LOVE THIS- this was the main reason I started with Razer and itll get new people into the brand
mltan
As I've mentioned, our pivot for Razer Silver is to reward those who use Razer Gold. That's the main purpose. Other means will be SECONDARY ways of earning Razer Silver.

Again - if it doesn't meet your expectations, there are many others who enjoy it, so just don't participate if you don't like it - and let those who enjoy it continue to.


AMEN!
mltan
The focus on Razer Gold won't change - and if you don't like the system, you really shouldn't participate and complaining about it (or worse for some other making threats) will just shut it down for the people who enjoy the system. So if you don't agree with it - I suggest you go find some other system that meets what you want.


Can't agree more!
mltan
The focus on Razer Gold won't change - and if you don't like the system, you really shouldn't participate and complaining about it (or worse for some other making threats) will just shut it down for the people who enjoy the system. So if you don't agree with it - I suggest you go find some other system that meets what you want.


zGold-MOLPoints still haven't change to RazerGold for RazerPay though
ImfernoX01
But I don't understand sry, is paid to play alive again or what? In my Razer Cortex, in Spain, I only have the campaign with Steam to get 500zSilver

Yes mate Razer P2P is back !
I got a picture from razer site with 200 cap... anyone know hot to unlock?
"/play-games-on-razer-cortex-and-get-rewarded-with-razer-silver.44853/#post-469395"
Ahr0uN
I got a picture from razer site with 200 cap... anyone know hot to unlock?
"/play-games-on-razer-cortex-and-get-rewarded-with-razer-silver.44853/#post-469395"

Would also like to know!
ErdrickDragonsbane
Well, I'm gonna go ahead and complain. Don't bring something like this back if it's only going to upset everyone, which is exactly what it's doing.

8. Users will receive 5 Razer Silver for every minute of gameplay, with a maximum of 50 Razer Silver each day. This excludes bonus campaigns such as double multiplier campaigns or more.
9. Awarding more Razer Silver per game activity and/or other Cortex PC campaigns will be subjected to Razer’s sole decisions and changes.
10. Every Razer Silver awarded in Paid to Play and Cortex PC will have 12 months validity period from date of earned/claimed.

Literally impossible for people to get anything more than tiny discounts on stuff. This comes across as a giant 'go fuck yourself', even more so when I read your posts in this thread. I've always supported Razer, because it's always seemed like you guys care about your gamers; you made left handed mice, and I even seem to recall some of your stuff being used by a guy who played games with his feet because he didn't have arms.

Then you introduced paid to play, with the zsilver, and it was amazing. It seemed like you finally cared about your poor gamers, and not just middle class or higher. People who had extremely limited budgets - and let's be real here, with soaring rates of college tuition, soaring housing costs, massively bloated student loan debt, a growing wealth and income divide between the top 1% and everyone else, rising medical costs in the US, and stagnant wages, there are a lot of those people - finally had a way to get some Razer gear. People who otherwise wouldn't be using your software wanted to download Cortex so they could earn points. It got people into Razer, supporting Razer, and using Razer.

And then you removed it. Because some people were complaining, or sending death threats. I've received death threats for being a progressive. I've received death threats for being an atheist, for being Jewish, for being alive. And I'm not famous, I don't own a large company, I don't even own a small company, I'm just someone barely making $8k/year and struggling to get by.

You're going to get death threats. You're going to get people complaining. You're going to have people who hate you, for no valid reason whatsoever. If you can't deal with that in 2018, you may as well hole yourself up somewhere without internet, because you can't escape it.

And now it's back, but in a format that is essentially a gigantic 'go fuck yourself' to everyone who loved the program in the first place, to everyone who has been clamoring for it to come back, to everyone who doesn't have the money to spend on the peripherals in the first place. It feels like a giant slap in the face. I wanted the program to come back, but would have been OK if it didn't--I understand that it was something you were doing to help your fellow gamers, and that it wasn't necessarily profitable [I don't have the data to see how much the program increased the use of your software, to see if you saw increased revenue, or decreased, or any other details], and was possibly even costing you money.

So, if my post here makes you decide to remove it. Fine. That's good. As it stands right now, it's a blighted abomination. It's an insult--a scam, even. There are plenty of people who will use it, think they can save up for a year and a half to get the cheapest mouse option, who will then feel deeply betrayed when they realize their silver is decaying after a year and they can never reach their goal.

excellent post.. everything i've wanted to say but have been too lazy to type 😃
ErdrickDragonsbane
Well, I'm gonna go ahead and complain. Don't bring something like this back if it's only going to upset everyone, which is exactly what it's doing.

8. Users will receive 5 Razer Silver for every minute of gameplay, with a maximum of 50 Razer Silver each day. This excludes bonus campaigns such as double multiplier campaigns or more.
9. Awarding more Razer Silver per game activity and/or other Cortex PC campaigns will be subjected to Razer’s sole decisions and changes.
10. Every Razer Silver awarded in Paid to Play and Cortex PC will have 12 months validity period from date of earned/claimed.

Literally impossible for people to get anything more than tiny discounts on stuff. This comes across as a giant 'go fuck yourself', even more so when I read your posts in this thread. I've always supported Razer, because it's always seemed like you guys care about your gamers; you made left handed mice, and I even seem to recall some of your stuff being used by a guy who played games with his feet because he didn't have arms.

Then you introduced paid to play, with the zsilver, and it was amazing. It seemed like you finally cared about your poor gamers, and not just middle class or higher. People who had extremely limited budgets - and let's be real here, with soaring rates of college tuition, soaring housing costs, massively bloated student loan debt, a growing wealth and income divide between the top 1% and everyone else, rising medical costs in the US, and stagnant wages, there are a lot of those people - finally had a way to get some Razer gear. People who otherwise wouldn't be using your software wanted to download Cortex so they could earn points. It got people into Razer, supporting Razer, and using Razer.

And then you removed it. Because some people were complaining, or sending death threats. I've received death threats for being a progressive. I've received death threats for being an atheist, for being Jewish, for being alive. And I'm not famous, I don't own a large company, I don't even own a small company, I'm just someone barely making $8k/year and struggling to get by.

You're going to get death threats. You're going to get people complaining. You're going to have people who hate you, for no valid reason whatsoever. If you can't deal with that in 2018, you may as well hole yourself up somewhere without internet, because you can't escape it.

And now it's back, but in a format that is essentially a gigantic 'go fuck yourself' to everyone who loved the program in the first place, to everyone who has been clamoring for it to come back, to everyone who doesn't have the money to spend on the peripherals in the first place. It feels like a giant slap in the face. I wanted the program to come back, but would have been OK if it didn't--I understand that it was something you were doing to help your fellow gamers, and that it wasn't necessarily profitable [I don't have the data to see how much the program increased the use of your software, to see if you saw increased revenue, or decreased, or any other details], and was possibly even costing you money.

So, if my post here makes you decide to remove it. Fine. That's good. As it stands right now, it's a blighted abomination. It's an insult--a scam, even. There are plenty of people who will use it, think they can save up for a year and a half to get the cheapest mouse option, who will then feel deeply betrayed when they realize their silver is decaying after a year and they can never reach their goal.


Except for the "So, if my post here makes you decide to remove it. Fine. That's good." part, I agree with nearly everything else stated here. Although I'm ecstatic that the program made a return at all, the program should just go back to way it was initially. To those who can't get with the program at that point, too bad. Can't appease everyone. Not in the logical sense, not in the geographical sense, & not in the ethical sense. Sadly, that's not common-sense.
I think the first step for now is to remove the zSilver expiry completely. The curent rate of earning zSilver aside from the lucky few in Mogul is abysmal. Razer fans can only redeem small items even with a whole year of grinding P2P.
J.O.Z.Y
I think the first step for now is to remove the zSilver expiry completely. The curent rate of earning zSilver aside from the lucky few in Mogul is abysmal. Razer fans can only redeem small items even with a whole year of grinding P2P.


Indeed! Having been a huge participant and advocate of the program, I simply have up on it as a whole. The HR's and/or directors of the program branch are not listening to what the active users of the program are\\have been saying for these past few years. Which is ultimately the type of practice that's going to end up compelling me to give up on Razer as a whole (aside from buying the Naga mice, given they're the only one of their kind in the entire peripheral industry). The operation is just... sinking in the tar pit.
J.O.Z.Y
I think the first step for now is to remove the zSilver expiry completely. The curent rate of earning zSilver aside from the lucky few in Mogul is abysmal. Razer fans can only redeem small items even with a whole year of grinding P2P.


Agreed, As I called it out on day one, no one is going to be interested in getting razer silver. None of my friends use it anymore cause whats the point lmao? Deleted cortex a month ago as its basically useless now. 1st gen of this p2p was fine, and now its just worse.
Userlevel 7
KTheory
Agreed, As I called it out on day one, no one is going to be interested in getting razer silver. None of my friends use it anymore cause whats the point lmao? Deleted cortex a month ago as its basically useless now. 1st gen of this p2p was fine, and now its just worse.

Just because you don't like it anymore and decide to stop using it doesn't mean that it's the same for everyone.

Yeah, the previous P2P system was awesome for the ratio time/silvers but so many allready complained about it when it was active (greedy power...) and if you add the multi accounts abuse it's clear that it has to changed.
mltan
Yes - I'm completely overhauling the system where we move away from the initial purpose of Paid to Play - if we ever bring it back, it will NOT be focused on bringing products to users who can't afford it.

.....

The focus will still be on users who are already part of the Razer customer list

.....

Finally - yes, there will be still free ways to earn zSilver, and lots of ways - but anytime anyone feels entitled and starts complaining about how slow the free ways are to earn, we will just tell them that the whole point of the system is not for anyone to earn it for free and that there are paid ways to do it.


I have to agree.

Can I add in a small suggestion of ways to earn zSilver? As someone who has recently purchased a headset, mouse, keyboard and mouse bungie direct from Razer it seems like it's a simple win for you guys to add zSilver to those customers buying direct. It doesn't even have to be a phenomenal amount, just enough to be similar and instead of the time limited voucher that is emailed after purchasing a product directly.

The reason I suggest this is that people may well have to budget each month prior to purchasing their next product from you, the time limited voucher although a nice touch, is simply too time limited to make use of. zSilver has a much longer expiry date and can be exchanged for money off a customers next purchase direct from Razer.

While I'm typing this from my nice new keyboard, can I just add something? Thank you for the previous zSilver Paid to Play rewards that enabled me to purchase all of the above, I'm enjoying using your products.