It's been a while since we decided to suspend Paid to Play - and each time I wanted to review it, I would go back to the forum thread - read the posts, and decide that maybe it's not worth doing it.
We started Paid to Play as a way to see how we could get community members who loved Razer, but couldn't afford to buy our gear, a way to grind and earn Razer products and other awesome giveaways. However, while we had good intentions for it, we started getting a lot of complaints, demands and worst of all - death threats to our team and I decided to put a stop to it.
I've thought about how we might bring it back sometime and here are my thoughts:
1. It will be focused more for users of Razer products and services - i.e. it's more to reward our existing customers as opposed to someone looking for a free hand-out.
2. We will probably want to focus on users of Razer zGold - and that will be the MAIN way of earning zSilver - for those who spend on games etc with zGold and earn zSilver.
3. We will still have multiple SECONDARY different ways of earning zSilver - it could be Paid to Play on PC, or on Mobile, or maybe through our partners like Esports Mogul and much more. It will still be possible to grind but there will be multiple different ways instead of just one way.
4. This will no longer be for those who aren't already Razer customers - and using Razer services is going to be the main way to earn zSilver - the other free ways of doing so will be secondary ways.
5. Anytime it gets negative, people demanding stuff, complaining or death threats we'll suspend it again.
Just some thoughts about this - it may or may not come back - but just some of my thoughts on how we might evolve Paid to Play.
This topic has been closed for comments
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Userlevel 7
- CEO
- 15 replies
-
12 December 2018
cxz93
When i can spend Z Gold on some popular games like LOL, overwatch, CS:GO etc
Depends on where you are in the world, in many regions, you can already use Razer Gold for LOL, Overwatch and CS:GO!
as I like the new changes, I do not agree with the amount of Razer silver you can earn by mining or paid to play. Before paid to play you could make 900 silver in a day for playing a couple hours. Now you can only earn 100 a day with paid to play and 133 with soft-mining. (200 in total). I know there are a lot of ways getting zsilver, but many people cant even get on mogul leader boards (like me), Don't buy enough games for Razer Gold to be efficient and are not religiously on insider. With that, I think that the products you can redeem with Razer Silver should have price changes, because good luck trying to get any of the higher costing products. After reading your responses above I feel like this is now 100% focused for razer gold. Which is sad, cause I think the idea of how people who have registered razer products should be able to get more razer silver in paid to play or softmining. Hopefully this will change in the months.
Some math that would put this in perspective
(Paid to play 1 month (3000 Silver)) + ((Softmining 1 month (4000 silver)) = 7000 Razer silver
7000 Razer silver x 12 months = 84, 000 Silver
After a year you are only getting 84,000 Silver, which you can only buy a select few things, and non of their most wanted higher end products. in addition this is dependent on 1 hour paid to play, and 5 hour mining. Again after a year your points begin to expire so you have to use them. In the old system, which I thought was superior you could potentially get 324, 000 Razer Silver in a year.
Just my thoughts.
Just some friendly feedback, but we shall see how this system works overtime.
Some math that would put this in perspective
(Paid to play 1 month (3000 Silver)) + ((Softmining 1 month (4000 silver)) = 7000 Razer silver
7000 Razer silver x 12 months = 84, 000 Silver
After a year you are only getting 84,000 Silver, which you can only buy a select few things, and non of their most wanted higher end products. in addition this is dependent on 1 hour paid to play, and 5 hour mining. Again after a year your points begin to expire so you have to use them. In the old system, which I thought was superior you could potentially get 324, 000 Razer Silver in a year.
Just my thoughts.
Just some friendly feedback, but we shall see how this system works overtime.
ImfernoX01
But I don't understand sry, is paid to play alive again or what? In my Razer Cortex, in Spain, I only have the campaign with Steam to get 500zSilver
Yes mate Razer P2P is back !
ErdrickDragonsbane
Well, I'm gonna go ahead and complain. Don't bring something like this back if it's only going to upset everyone, which is exactly what it's doing.
8. Users will receive 5 Razer Silver for every minute of gameplay, with a maximum of 50 Razer Silver each day. This excludes bonus campaigns such as double multiplier campaigns or more.
9. Awarding more Razer Silver per game activity and/or other Cortex PC campaigns will be subjected to Razer’s sole decisions and changes.
10. Every Razer Silver awarded in Paid to Play and Cortex PC will have 12 months validity period from date of earned/claimed.
Literally impossible for people to get anything more than tiny discounts on stuff. This comes across as a giant 'go fuck yourself', even more so when I read your posts in this thread. I've always supported Razer, because it's always seemed like you guys care about your gamers; you made left handed mice, and I even seem to recall some of your stuff being used by a guy who played games with his feet because he didn't have arms.
Then you introduced paid to play, with the zsilver, and it was amazing. It seemed like you finally cared about your poor gamers, and not just middle class or higher. People who had extremely limited budgets - and let's be real here, with soaring rates of college tuition, soaring housing costs, massively bloated student loan debt, a growing wealth and income divide between the top 1% and everyone else, rising medical costs in the US, and stagnant wages, there are a lot of those people - finally had a way to get some Razer gear. People who otherwise wouldn't be using your software wanted to download Cortex so they could earn points. It got people into Razer, supporting Razer, and using Razer.
And then you removed it. Because some people were complaining, or sending death threats. I've received death threats for being a progressive. I've received death threats for being an atheist, for being Jewish, for being alive. And I'm not famous, I don't own a large company, I don't even own a small company, I'm just someone barely making $8k/year and struggling to get by.
You're going to get death threats. You're going to get people complaining. You're going to have people who hate you, for no valid reason whatsoever. If you can't deal with that in 2018, you may as well hole yourself up somewhere without internet, because you can't escape it.
And now it's back, but in a format that is essentially a gigantic 'go fuck yourself' to everyone who loved the program in the first place, to everyone who has been clamoring for it to come back, to everyone who doesn't have the money to spend on the peripherals in the first place. It feels like a giant slap in the face. I wanted the program to come back, but would have been OK if it didn't--I understand that it was something you were doing to help your fellow gamers, and that it wasn't necessarily profitable [I don't have the data to see how much the program increased the use of your software, to see if you saw increased revenue, or decreased, or any other details], and was possibly even costing you money.
So, if my post here makes you decide to remove it. Fine. That's good. As it stands right now, it's a blighted abomination. It's an insult--a scam, even. There are plenty of people who will use it, think they can save up for a year and a half to get the cheapest mouse option, who will then feel deeply betrayed when they realize their silver is decaying after a year and they can never reach their goal.
excellent post.. everything i've wanted to say but have been too lazy to type
ErdrickDragonsbane
Well, I'm gonna go ahead and complain. Don't bring something like this back if it's only going to upset everyone, which is exactly what it's doing.
8. Users will receive 5 Razer Silver for every minute of gameplay, with a maximum of 50 Razer Silver each day. This excludes bonus campaigns such as double multiplier campaigns or more.
9. Awarding more Razer Silver per game activity and/or other Cortex PC campaigns will be subjected to Razer’s sole decisions and changes.
10. Every Razer Silver awarded in Paid to Play and Cortex PC will have 12 months validity period from date of earned/claimed.
Literally impossible for people to get anything more than tiny discounts on stuff. This comes across as a giant 'go fuck yourself', even more so when I read your posts in this thread. I've always supported Razer, because it's always seemed like you guys care about your gamers; you made left handed mice, and I even seem to recall some of your stuff being used by a guy who played games with his feet because he didn't have arms.
Then you introduced paid to play, with the zsilver, and it was amazing. It seemed like you finally cared about your poor gamers, and not just middle class or higher. People who had extremely limited budgets - and let's be real here, with soaring rates of college tuition, soaring housing costs, massively bloated student loan debt, a growing wealth and income divide between the top 1% and everyone else, rising medical costs in the US, and stagnant wages, there are a lot of those people - finally had a way to get some Razer gear. People who otherwise wouldn't be using your software wanted to download Cortex so they could earn points. It got people into Razer, supporting Razer, and using Razer.
And then you removed it. Because some people were complaining, or sending death threats. I've received death threats for being a progressive. I've received death threats for being an atheist, for being Jewish, for being alive. And I'm not famous, I don't own a large company, I don't even own a small company, I'm just someone barely making $8k/year and struggling to get by.
You're going to get death threats. You're going to get people complaining. You're going to have people who hate you, for no valid reason whatsoever. If you can't deal with that in 2018, you may as well hole yourself up somewhere without internet, because you can't escape it.
And now it's back, but in a format that is essentially a gigantic 'go fuck yourself' to everyone who loved the program in the first place, to everyone who has been clamoring for it to come back, to everyone who doesn't have the money to spend on the peripherals in the first place. It feels like a giant slap in the face. I wanted the program to come back, but would have been OK if it didn't--I understand that it was something you were doing to help your fellow gamers, and that it wasn't necessarily profitable [I don't have the data to see how much the program increased the use of your software, to see if you saw increased revenue, or decreased, or any other details], and was possibly even costing you money.
So, if my post here makes you decide to remove it. Fine. That's good. As it stands right now, it's a blighted abomination. It's an insult--a scam, even. There are plenty of people who will use it, think they can save up for a year and a half to get the cheapest mouse option, who will then feel deeply betrayed when they realize their silver is decaying after a year and they can never reach their goal.
Except for the "So, if my post here makes you decide to remove it. Fine. That's good." part, I agree with nearly everything else stated here. Although I'm ecstatic that the program made a return at all, the program should just go back to way it was initially. To those who can't get with the program at that point, too bad. Can't appease everyone. Not in the logical sense, not in the geographical sense, & not in the ethical sense. Sadly, that's not common-sense.
Userlevel 7
First things first - it's great news that you have some plans with PtP (Paid to Play in further text), because I believe that everyone will be happy with more options to score zSilver. Thank you for that!
I will try to give you my opinion on each bullet you wrote:
1. I have nothing against it, but I think it defeats the initial purpose of PtP - Razer products to those who can't afford them. Yes, I know that the program was misused and that it couldn't have a future like that. But, because of that program, I came here to the Insider. And you know what happened then? I stayed here even 9 months after it has been closed, because I can discuss about many things that have or have not direct correlation with the Razer products, because of nice mods and community as a whole, and because you as the CEO of the company who visit this forum and give some inputs from time to time. This is definitely something that no other companies have nor do.
What I want to say, maybe to think about those who are still not a part of the Razer family (cult) and give them a chance to become. How to accomplish that? Something like much lower rate at which zSilver can be gathered if you have no Razer item or you don't use Razer services. That way everyone has a chance to score zSilver, and it should discourage those who are farming to get zSilver.
Another way to discourage PtP system abusers is to work closely with game developers who want their games to get to the PtP list. For example, I know that Valve games (Dota 2 and CSGO) have some API which could be used to see if someone is AFK in game or is really playing matches. Probably this is something that you have considered with your dev team.
2. Here I have to agree with @Tackertyp:
I am also a person who played a lot Dota 2 and CSGO, and much less some other games. I think that things have changed in last few years: people spend money for in-game purchases rather than to buy some new games. Maybe I am wrong (well, 'probably' is perhaps better word than 'maybe'), but this is the opinion from my point of view.
3. I can say nothing else but
4. Ah, so it remains for people who don't own Razer equipment to score zSilver. That's cool (and invalidates good part of my post under bullet 1).
5. It's maybe harsh to punish whole community because of a few individuals, but I do understand. Death threats should have zero tolerance everywhere.
But don't be too harsh towards the complains. After all, it's in human nature to complain :smile_:
All in all, thank you for sharing your thoughts with us. Specially regarding those great news!
I will try to give you my opinion on each bullet you wrote:
1. I have nothing against it, but I think it defeats the initial purpose of PtP - Razer products to those who can't afford them. Yes, I know that the program was misused and that it couldn't have a future like that. But, because of that program, I came here to the Insider. And you know what happened then? I stayed here even 9 months after it has been closed, because I can discuss about many things that have or have not direct correlation with the Razer products, because of nice mods and community as a whole, and because you as the CEO of the company who visit this forum and give some inputs from time to time. This is definitely something that no other companies have nor do.
What I want to say, maybe to think about those who are still not a part of the Razer family (cult) and give them a chance to become. How to accomplish that? Something like much lower rate at which zSilver can be gathered if you have no Razer item or you don't use Razer services. That way everyone has a chance to score zSilver, and it should discourage those who are farming to get zSilver.
Another way to discourage PtP system abusers is to work closely with game developers who want their games to get to the PtP list. For example, I know that Valve games (Dota 2 and CSGO) have some API which could be used to see if someone is AFK in game or is really playing matches. Probably this is something that you have considered with your dev team.
2. Here I have to agree with @Tackertyp:
Tackertyp
Unfortuneatly I am one of the people, that don't need a new game each month, but play games over years, like cs:go and stuff. That means i dont spend that much zGold.
I am also a person who played a lot Dota 2 and CSGO, and much less some other games. I think that things have changed in last few years: people spend money for in-game purchases rather than to buy some new games. Maybe I am wrong (well, 'probably' is perhaps better word than 'maybe'), but this is the opinion from my point of view.
3. I can say nothing else but
4. Ah, so it remains for people who don't own Razer equipment to score zSilver. That's cool (and invalidates good part of my post under bullet 1).
5. It's maybe harsh to punish whole community because of a few individuals, but I do understand. Death threats should have zero tolerance everywhere.
But don't be too harsh towards the complains. After all, it's in human nature to complain :smile_:
All in all, thank you for sharing your thoughts with us. Specially regarding those great news!
Thanks for taking the time to respond to so many posts in this thread. It's refreshing to have more of a conversation as opposed to a single post. So, thank you.
Simple suggestion, but can the Insider rewards award more zSilver? Those should probably be looked at since the pay to play option is suspended. I'm newer and never took advantage of that, joining just a few months ago. I just buy all my Razer stuff and use the forums because I love the brand and enjoy it. But let's be real, it's highly unlikely all the zSilver Insider achievements in the world are going to get me a free Huntsman.
I think you get what I'm saying...I like the community here, and I'm not doing it for the zSilver (well, maybe if the mug comes back). There is an opportunity to revive this Insider community with the proper incentives.
Simple suggestion, but can the Insider rewards award more zSilver? Those should probably be looked at since the pay to play option is suspended. I'm newer and never took advantage of that, joining just a few months ago. I just buy all my Razer stuff and use the forums because I love the brand and enjoy it. But let's be real, it's highly unlikely all the zSilver Insider achievements in the world are going to get me a free Huntsman.
I think you get what I'm saying...I like the community here, and I'm not doing it for the zSilver (well, maybe if the mug comes back). There is an opportunity to revive this Insider community with the proper incentives.
@mltan Once again, thank you very much for zGold and zSilver idea, I've earned some great equipment that I wouldn't get in other way. Really appreciate it and truly sorry for all the complainers.
@thehitchno It's not about punishing but about REWARDING, sorry you don't understand that after a year in the community. Won't write nothing more because I got warned once for similar discussion ;)
@shmekermeister @Blazespot We all know that the problem is not AFK but multi accounts, as P2P as Mogul are "overexploited" that way.
Really admire mltan that he wants to go through that again.
Keep it up RAZER 💚
@thehitchno It's not about punishing but about REWARDING, sorry you don't understand that after a year in the community. Won't write nothing more because I got warned once for similar discussion ;)
@shmekermeister @Blazespot We all know that the problem is not AFK but multi accounts, as P2P as Mogul are "overexploited" that way.
Really admire mltan that he wants to go through that again.
Keep it up RAZER 💚
Userlevel 7
Bangerzzz
Mogul Arena would be an awesome way to earn, but it REALLY needs A LOT of SERIOUS work.
Currently, 99.5% of events are in ASIA. That effectively eliminates US and EU users to participate in them due to server location and time of those events.
It also needs to support more current games like PUBG, Fornut, CoD etc.
Those are the 2 biggest issues with Mogul Arena as before Razer Arena was shut down, it was pretty good and enjoyable since I could actually compete in CSGO tournaments.
This and multiaccounts on Esports Elite. It's the same problem that PtP had.
Userlevel 7
Paid to Play works great, played a few rounds of PUBG and it worked flawlessly.👍 It's a good cap amount too, easy to hit, small enough to not be abused, but still enough to add up.
THANK YOU Mltan !!!
I cant thank you enough mltan thank you so much for getting us Payed 2 Play Back
This means so much to me and all THE RAZER FAMILY around the world !
If I ever get to meet you in real life I will shake you had and give you a RAZER high Five :big_grin_:
Or even yet just drop by on my mixer stream and say hi ! I will salute you throw my cam even parse you :big_grin_:
Kind Regards
parth1C.
I cant thank you enough mltan thank you so much for getting us Payed 2 Play Back
This means so much to me and all THE RAZER FAMILY around the world !
If I ever get to meet you in real life I will shake you had and give you a RAZER high Five :big_grin_:
Or even yet just drop by on my mixer stream and say hi ! I will salute you throw my cam even parse you :big_grin_:
Kind Regards
parth1C.
Userlevel 7
ImfernoX01
But I don't understand sry, is paid to play alive again or what? In my Razer Cortex, in Spain, I only have the campaign with Steam to get 500zSilver
it's back. but...
"Play games on Razer Cortex and get rewarded with Razer Silver Earn 5 Razer Silver for every minute of gameplay, with a maximum of 100 Razer Silver each day. Qualifying games are updated every 2 weeks."
KTheory
as I like the new changes, I do not agree with the amount of Razer silver you can earn by mining or paid to play. Before paid to play you could make 900 silver in a day for playing a couple hours. Now you can only earn 100 a day with paid to play and 133 with soft-mining. (200 in total). I know there are a lot of ways getting zsilver, but many people cant even get on mogul leader boards (like me), Don't buy enough games for Razer Gold to be efficient and are not religiously on insider. With that, I think that the products you can redeem with Razer Silver should have price changes, because good luck trying to get any of the higher costing products. After reading your responses above I feel like this is now 100% focused for razer gold. Which is sad, cause I think the idea of how people who have registered razer products should be able to get more razer silver in paid to play or softmining. Hopefully this will change in the months.
Some math that would put this in perspective
(Paid to play 1 month (3000 Silver)) + ((Softmining 1 month (4000 silver)) = 7000 Razer silver
7000 Razer silver x 12 months = 84, 000 Silver
After a year you are only getting 84,000 Silver, which you can only buy a select few things, and non of their most wanted higher end products. in addition this is dependent on 1 hour paid to play, and 5 hour mining. Again after a year your points begin to expire so you have to use them. In the old system, which I thought was superior you could potentially get 324, 000 Razer Silver in a year.
Just my thoughts.
Just some friendly feedback, but we shall see how this system works overtime.
I totally agree with you, I think they should increase the daily limit
mltan
The focus on Razer Gold won't change - and if you don't like the system, you really shouldn't participate and complaining about it (or worse for some other making threats) will just shut it down for the people who enjoy the system. So if you don't agree with it - I suggest you go find some other system that meets what you want.
I understand you, it's like a shop. You buy with gold and then you get silver. The actual paid to play is just a secondary way to get Silver. As KTheory said we need to wait to see how it will go. Idk if it's with silver, gold diamond but I'll buy one day the Razer Thresher :3
mltan
The focus on Razer Gold won't change - and if you don't like the system, you really shouldn't participate and complaining about it (or worse for some other making threats) will just shut it down for the people who enjoy the system. So if you don't agree with it - I suggest you go find some other system that meets what you want.
Well I guess its just a change in the vision for Razer gold/silver. I'm not totally against it, and I will definitely be trying out the system (have completed today's paid to play 100 Silver already). Just making a comparison to the Razer Silver before. If people complained and sent threats over before, they will probably regret it now. Anyways, I personally think the system just needs to be tweaked, and only time will tell if it actually does.
mltan
As I've mentioned, our pivot for Razer Silver is to reward those who use Razer Gold. That's the main purpose. Other means will be SECONDARY ways of earning Razer Silver.
Again - if it doesn't meet your expectations, there are many others who enjoy it, so just don't participate if you don't like it - and let those who enjoy it continue to.
AMEN!
Ahr0uN
I got a picture from razer site with 200 cap... anyone know hot to unlock?
"/play-games-on-razer-cortex-and-get-rewarded-with-razer-silver.44853/#post-469395"
Would also like to know!
J.O.Z.Y
I think the first step for now is to remove the zSilver expiry completely. The curent rate of earning zSilver aside from the lucky few in Mogul is abysmal. Razer fans can only redeem small items even with a whole year of grinding P2P.
Indeed! Having been a huge participant and advocate of the program, I simply have up on it as a whole. The HR's and/or directors of the program branch are not listening to what the active users of the program are\\have been saying for these past few years. Which is ultimately the type of practice that's going to end up compelling me to give up on Razer as a whole (aside from buying the Naga mice, given they're the only one of their kind in the entire peripheral industry). The operation is just... sinking in the tar pit.
Userlevel 7
KTheory
Agreed, As I called it out on day one, no one is going to be interested in getting razer silver. None of my friends use it anymore cause whats the point lmao? Deleted cortex a month ago as its basically useless now. 1st gen of this p2p was fine, and now its just worse.
Just because you don't like it anymore and decide to stop using it doesn't mean that it's the same for everyone.
Yeah, the previous P2P system was awesome for the ratio time/silvers but so many allready complained about it when it was active (greedy power...) and if you add the multi accounts abuse it's clear that it has to changed.
Userlevel 7
I would much prefer something like Razer Arena than Mogul if we're considering esport voting as an option. Mogul makes it extremely hard and has quite a few issues with people making multiple accounts and so and putting them all at the top. Something more stable than just a leaderboard based would be nice.
And, just trying here... Is India anywhere on the list for a Razer store? :3 _/\\_
And, just trying here... Is India anywhere on the list for a Razer store? :3 _/\\_
Userlevel 7
mltan
zGold can be used for virtual goods like games and digital content such as virtual items only I'm afraid as it is regulated. So it won't ever be used for hardware.
Now if someday we ever released a cryptocurrency, that's a different story as it would be usable for software AND hardware. But we have no plans for this now.
C'est la vie ... I'll still get that Razer Phone 2 the normal way, then ... as soon as it's released here.
Userlevel 7
This post is really raising up your mood, now i'm not too much focused on games but on the gear itself. Receiving awards in accordance to the Razer Gear owned as well as other "mysterious ways" sounds good to me. We're waiting for changes and of course the most conclusive news at all.
Userlevel 7
xonaspt
I think it's a little unfair for people like myself who can't really afford razer gear and want to get it for free
Even as he's proposing now, he didn't say that you have to own a Razer Mouse, or keyboard, or any other piece of Razer gear. He said that you have to be an established user of Razer "products and services". So if you don't have money for Razer gear, but still like to buy games on a regular basis, just make sure you buy them with zGold and your zSilver earnings will increase quicker than if you just log into Cortex every day.
Userlevel 7
a multiplier system for those who are "bought in" to the razer eco system …. now that's an idea I can get behind
Userlevel 7
Yes I’m in on first point, maybe a limited products gifts for loyal costumers who always buy your products every new one comes out with something special like the mugs holder:big_grin_:. With Razer ID you can notice how many products a user purchased right. It was also nice P2P but yes poeple always want more and more, it’s really difficult I believe to control. Putting focus on existing loyal costumers will invite more new loyal costumers imo, starting for users who use Razer as their main PC, like Blade stealth, Razer Core and Razer Keyboard mouse as pheriperals with Razer Phone as his mobile device;)
mltan
Well, we're rewarding our customers - they're the ones who don't make death threats.
mltan
It's been a while since we decided to suspend Paid to Play - and each time I wanted to review it, I would go back to the forum thread - read the posts, and decide that maybe it's not worth doing it.
We started Paid to Play as a way to see how we could get community members who loved Razer, but couldn't afford to buy our gear, a way to grind and earn Razer products and other awesome giveaways. However, while we had good intentions for it, we started getting a lot of complaints, demands and worst of all - death threats to our team and I decided to put a stop to it.
I've thought about how we might bring it back sometime and here are my thoughts:
1. It will be focused more for users of Razer products and services - i.e. it's more to reward our existing customers as opposed to someone looking for a free hand-out.
2. We will probably want to focus on users of Razer zGold - and that will be the MAIN way of earning zSilver - for those who spend on games etc with zGold and earn zSilver.
3. We will still have multiple SECONDARY different ways of earning zSilver - it could be Paid to Play on PC, or on Mobile, or maybe through our partners like Esports Mogul and much more. It will still be possible to grind but there will be multiple different ways instead of just one way.
4. This will no longer be for those who aren't already Razer customers - and using Razer services is going to be the main way to earn zSilver - the other free ways of doing so will be secondary ways.
5. Anytime it gets negative, people demanding stuff, complaining or death threats we'll suspend it again.
Just some thoughts about this - it may or may not come back - but just some of my thoughts on how we might evolve Paid to Play.
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