An open discussion on Insider Special Access

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Min-Liang Tan, Dec 16, 2014.

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  1. KaitouDark

    KaitouDark New Member

    Greetings Min-Liang Tan,

    First of all, I just wanted to say I'm a big fan of Razer. I think this way of doing this is messy. I have tried registering for the preorder, I got through by luck in the beginning. I had to use three different browsers cause of loading problems. You guys should have a pretty good idea how much traffic/request was coming in from Wave 1. You guys sold out in a few seconds last time, so you should probably be expecting more even more traffic/request this time. Also, after all it is the holiday season, you just mention it will be in retail soon for the last couple of weeks. There is no ball park on when this is actually going to be up on the Razer Store. (I checked out about 6:02 PM Est and it was already sold out. Sadly, since you guys made this product so "limited" majority of the people are reselling it for $300+ on eBay. Literally making three times the profit.

    Kind regards,

    KaitouDark
     
  2. ElstenWeiss

    ElstenWeiss Active Member

    Hey @Min-Liang Tan,

    I don't think that you should scrap the Insider Early Access idea entirely, but at the same time, I don't think that you should try to please everyone all at once either. Instead, maybe try pleasing a few people at a time with each new release, and have hard limits and controls on each. For example:
    ----------
    Event 1 : Razer Nabu pre-launch special! Total 10,000 units available to US Insiders only, at $79.99. Medium-Large, Black/Black units only. First-come, first-serve, and can only order 1 unit per mailing address. Orders open on YYYYMMDD @ HH:MM:SS.

    No need for pre-registration, and that's a hard number. One wave, GLHF Razer Insiders. For those who get one, GGWP. For all other US Insiders, better luck next time.
    ----------
    So nobody outside of the US got a chance at Event 1, which sucks, but the next event is going to be another locale instead.
    ----------
    Event 2 : Razer Seiren pre-launch special! Total 100 units available to Canadian Insiders only! (*ahem* sorry, self-bias :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: ) Details, etc.!

    Again, hard capped and no pre-registration stuff. That seems to just get peoples' hopes up and drop them down harder later for more QQ /ragequit .
    ----------
    As you release more products or have more such special Insider events, rotate the locales as you can (and as business dictates) so that everyone gets something at some point. Sure, I have no use for a Seiren, so I totally miss out on the Nabu AND the Canadian turn, but everything else in life works that way already. That other store which sells whatever products doesn't necessarily put the thing I want on sale, ever. Or in gaming terms, just because I need something from a rare-spawn boss doesn't mean that the game is unplayable or broken if I never manage to claim/kill it.

    Sorry for the long post! :)
     
  3. Dbroome81

    Dbroome81 Active Member

    Min,

    Got to say I agree with this. Hardcore fans are the ones that own multiple Razer products, use the software that you put the time into developing and post in these forums something other then "I WANT NABOO" ( yeah Im still hung up on that post).

    I think it should be a combination of items. If you decide to make it where its 100 posts or more type thing then I suggest not publishing that number and/or having your moderators delete the idiot/spam posts that will pop up.

    Bottom line is, I love Razer Insider and I love the special access and prices. It is a great idea and a great gesture of giving back to those that love your product. Also, think as @Mapsle pointed out, its fairly telling that the ones in here posting are all at least Member status, while the vast majority complaining are "new member" status. Just saying. Thanks again for taking care of your fans though.
     
    Xilef_Zar likes this.
  4. I like the idea of insider pre-sale the frustrations came from execution. I like that Razer is trying different things to promote a highly anticipated product. I would scrap pre- registers and just sell first come first serve or pre-register with a cap and allow pre-registered to order based on availability. ( example 20k cap with availability of 5k units, email first 5k then allow to order in a window of time, after that any left over units will be released to 2nd group of 5k people and so on, I don't believe with such demand you will have extra units in warehouse un wanted this early in the game and high demand)

    The insider special will bring new people to your sites and some will fade after launch many will stay and keep a growing community.

    as frustrated as I was I see how much razer seems to care..keep up the good work learn from each launch and make it better but don't abandon the idea. Im an early adopter of things and enjoy the ideas coming in

    oh and I'm a "new member" but not for ever!
     
  5. Elfreid

    Elfreid Well-Known Member

    I am from SEA. So I feel neither angry nor happy. It is just non of my business and what I can do is sit back and wait for the retail version. But I do got annoyed by the amount of Nabu thread (especially those whinny one) at Insider and made me less active at this place. The same place that we had great times chit chat, share experience/idea, discussing and etc.

    Here is my opinion/idea. If Razer decide to continue this Insider exclusive deal, It is impossible to please everyone. Razer can run a pre-qualified check by those suggestion such like how many items own or Insider ranking or anything else. But there is still far away to seize down the number to let's say 5000. When those who cannot get 1 in hand, people will start searching things to blame (bad internet speed, wrong timing, regional issue and the most of it, Razer's bad management).

    So, my idea is, Razer can start a pre-registration and get whoever interest (most probably everyone). Then, run a pre-qualified check to all the candidates who apply (something like to verify he/she is an Insider member, actively use Razer software, etc.). Other than send an invitation email to huge amount of qualified member and asked them to compete in 1 second for 5000 units. How about, Razer randomly pick 5000 member and send them the invitation email to purchase the product. No more angry F5 spammer and torture of Razer's server. For the 5000 lucky winner, they can have a certain time (let's say 48 hours) to place their payment to purchase the product. If they failed to do so, it consider they give up the exclusive chance and Razer will randomly pick another lucky member to get it. In this case, people has nothing to blame other than their own luck.

    I believe this will reduce the amount of angry member out there. Hope it helps. Cheers.;)
     
  6. Beigelotus

    Beigelotus Member

    It's a good idea @Min-Liang Tan, BUT then only for the active members or people that are member for a longer periode, because now you tried to get more and more people to Insider for the nabu waves, and it's a bit unfair for the people that are on the forum for a long time,that they are threaded the same like people that are new for just 1 hour... And they got in waves before older/longer members of the forum...
     
  7. Nanoforge

    Nanoforge Active Member

    I failed in getting a NABU in wave 1 but got one in wave 2. I'm conflicted with this system though. I like that you want to create an opportunity for those interested but I think the reg-cap-invite-order system can get bogged by tech-glitches and missed chances that creates a lot of animosity. I would like to see a full product release with either discount tickets given to the ones that are savvy enough to gain them or possibly creating a quantity of special product that is different in some way that those that wish to vie for can. Say an all green NABU or a silver or gold NABU something that cannot be purchased in stores. Then set up the parameters for those that want to see if they can win a coveted special that will signify them apart far greater than a pre-store issued NABU that will look no different than the black store bought ones. This way those that want to try for the special nabu can and those that just prefer to buy one outright without all jockeying and server issues.
     
    Beigelotus likes this.
  8. Junch

    Junch Associate Product Manager Staff Member

    Hi Jacob,
    Already passed on your issue to the RazerStore team. Hang tight, they'll check in on your issue soon.
     
  9. D6Exx

    D6Exx Member

    @Min-Liang Tan Did you just post a passive aggressive thread in an attempt to further alienate your customers? Honestly. I cannot believe that two hours after your Wave 2 "pre-sale" you come on this forum to post what sounds to me like a condescending "open discussion".

    I'm not going to sit here and stroke your ego. Are you really that out of touch? Do people want discounts? Yes. Do people want pre-release? Yes. Except this isn't pre-release and Futureshop in Canada has them at retail. Why the hell aren't you selling it on your site when it can be purchased in Canada? Why are you putting US customers in a lottery and neglecting European customers altogether?

    Then you let scalpers resell your "pre-release" items on eBAY for 2-3x times the cost. I wonder why your customers are angry. There is nobody to blame for this but your company directly.

    I'm just going to link you to the original pre-registration thread that has feedback from people who have been wasting their time with your lottery system and are tired of dealing with site issues:

    https://insider.razerzone.com/index...-order-the-razer-nabu.1050/page-74#post-48639

    Why should we waste another thread discussing this topic when your admins closed a second thread earlier? It wasn't alright for a non-CEO to post a second thread but here comes Min-Liang with the same post later that day. Double standards all around.

    Is there any chance Razer gets their head out of their collective asses?
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2014
  10. R3neg4deDav3

    R3neg4deDav3 Member

    This isn't to qualify you to purchase the product, it is simply to allow to most dedicated fans to be the first to get their hands on it and for the company to give back to it's supporters. Everyone else who isn't a gamer probably wouldn't be a strong supporter or fan of Razer and therefore wouldn't be a part of Insider in the first place.
     
  11. mltan

    mltan CEO Staff Member

    I'm sorry if you feel that this is passive aggressive - it wasn't meant to come across as such (and candidly I'm reading it a couple of times and I still can't see that it's passive aggressive. That much said, if you do feel that way, I assure you it's not) - but it's an open discussion and my main intent is to figure out if we should/should not continue with the Insider Special Access with the feedback from the community.

    As I've mentioned in a separate post, we are slowly rolling out to retail - but in many (most) cases, it's not up to us to put it on the shelves. The retailers are. As for all available units right now, they're all on Insider. We could probably have put the 5,000 units on Razerstore - and they'd all be gone at the same time (and at MSRP price instead of the Insider price). As for Europe - my post on this matter is on the record too.

    I've actually actively dissuaded everyone from purchasing from scalpers.

    I think the other thread's topic references wave 2 while this is an open call to the community to get feedback on all future Special Access initiatives. If the community thinks it's a terrible idea, we'll scrap Wave 3 and all future Special Access and focus on normal retail launches like how we used to do it (and there were tons of unhappy people too as they waited to get stock). It's just how it is.

    On this note though - thanks for the feedback - I assure you there's no intention whatsoever to alienate the community but on the contrary - get as much feedback on the process.
     
  12. Vandrill

    Vandrill Member

    I like the idea of giving the first few units to the hardcore fans, but like others I feel there should be a measure of how "hardcore" someone is. At this point can't anyone join Razer insider, make an account, and sign up for pre-order? In addition, and I'm not sure how this could be done, there should be some way to discourage scalping.
    My only complaint about the pre-order system thus far is the instability of webpages. I completely understand that you guys are getting swamped by people trying to get their hands on the Nabu, but it does become quite frustrating having to spend a lot of time fighting downed servers to be eligible for pre-order. (It took a hour after opening time for me to get registered for wave 2 on insider.) I have no understanding of web design and networking, but is it possible to rent additional servers to handle the added stress during periods like these? Maybe plug 20 Razer Blades together via Ethernet? :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:
     
  13. Junch

    Junch Associate Product Manager Staff Member

    Hi Jacob,
    I've pinged you in Conversations. If you can provide me your full shipping address that you'd like for the Nabu to be shipped to, then I can quickly pass it on to the RazerStore team.

    Thanks.
     
  14. Vandrill

    Vandrill Member

    As an added note: I think people would be less frustrated with all this if it was more quick and clean cut. For example: Wave 3 registration begins at 8AM PST Dec 19th, 2014. At that time exactly, the Insider link becomes active, people quickly register without a hitch, and go back to their daily lives. When the date on their e-mail to order the Nabu comes around, they fill out the Razer Store forms and know within 5 minutes of the scheduled date whether they got one or not. Spending a lot of time waiting for webpages to load causes frustration, especially when it is all for naught (like when you spend 1-2 hours fighting servers and end up with nothing). If i spent a collective 10 minutes pre-registering and ordering, even if I didn't get a Nabu, I would be much less distraught.
     
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  15. RifleMatthew

    RifleMatthew Member

    I believe any thing special for the people on razer insider for the razer fans is perfect. I can only yell with grateful delight every time there is something special for those of us who have actually been committed to razer through the good and the bad and promoting razer, but in the same way not saying it's perfect if it isn't. I can only hope that being a part of the razer cult and getting specials and sharing it with the rest of the population will help your popularity grow as a company with the best quality built everything. The beta for the insiders are great cause it's like giving a chance for the people before hand to try it out and put inputs for razer for little bugs or fixes that they would need to do instead of being raided by the mass about it and getting bad reviews and sinking sales.
     
  16. D6Exx

    D6Exx Member

     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2014
  17. Zerachial

    Zerachial Member

    After reading all the posts here I'm going to add my 2c.

    Firstly I think whatever system you put in place there will be some people mad because they missed out and a few bad apples (eggs? apples? Whatever) who game the system and get something when they probably shouldn't. Somebody far smarter than me once said you can't please all of the people all of the time and you shouldn't (Google tells me it was John Lydgate apparently).

    On that basis alone you should definitely keep doing something for insiders because we do love it. And no matter what system you come up with you're never going to get everyone to agree on what really defines "hardcore".

    Perhaps because it is so tough to determine you might consider looking at something else. If it's supposed to be for "insiders" why not consider how long we've been in this exclusive club, rather than how much we post? But again that's just because personally I tend to lurk more than I post. Someone said tracking posts read but you've already said that's tough to do so fair enough.

    My other thought agrees with what someone else said about insider deals and you make them unique to insiders. Rather than giving us pre-orders (and this might be heresy to some and for that I apologize in advance) wait until *after* release and offer us something different. For example take the launch of the Nabu. You release the device normally and let insiders know that if they can be patient (someone else already said truly "hardcore" fans should be able to be patient and I agree with that) they will be able to order a Nabu in any size they want with a unique Razer band not available to anyone else and at the insider price. You'd have to be upfront with them so that if they wanted the special band they would know not to buy the normally released device but to save their precious cash for what they really wanted.

    Not being a business guy myself I have no idea if that would work - to delay a product for the sake of special?

    Anyway. Just my rambling 2c.

    TL ; DR - something special only available to insiders but *after* full product launch instead of pre-order.
     
    D6Exx likes this.
  18. kajira

    kajira Mother of Gaming

    @Min-Liang Tan I'm quite happy to see you reaching out to the population for input, I think it's probably a wise decision since this is, hopefully, the same group of people you are attempting to keep as happy as possibly. (very old addage applies of not pleasing everyone all the time, blah, blah, blah. lol) So, I'll just offer my own rather random feedback and thoughts.

    First, I think offering the first units to Razer|Insider was brilliant. I love the idea of rewarding your loyal fans who really go out of their way to make these forums a special place to hang out. That being said, I kind of think that perhaps for wave one it should've been offered without announcing it anywhere *Except* here on Insider. Keep that wave just for those of us who had already given nearly two months to building the place up initially, even if it meant offering fewer units at that time. Either that, or have the Razer staff who had been interacting with us the whole time pick out a group that they felt truly deserved to purchase the units at the special price early on. Just a thought there, but I know there were people who were strong members and who contributed a lot who were big parts of Insider who weren't fast enough, or didn't get their e-mail, for wave one. To see some of them beat out by the "spam posters" or by "one-post-wonders" was a little disheartening. Mostly because we all kind of assumed this was a reward for being an Insider member. So, there's my thoughts on that aspect. (mind you, I don't mean myself because somehow I was lucky enough to obtain a unit in wave one)

    Now, I think a lot of other issues maybe could've been avoided if the information were put out there (there, meaning the other social medias) differently to funnel new people to the site. I think maybe we exploded with new members a little too quickly for this particular release. I also think that many of them will completely disappear as soon as the waves of Nabu end. This isn't necessarily the best for anyone. It ultimately lowers our population here, and let's be honest the more who post and the more active the more likely we will be to retain future members, and it gets people angry when they find out that their odds of success are a lot lower than they'd hoped. If we'd found some way to control the flood of people to a more manageable level (and I'm clueless what could've really accomplished that outside of e-mail invites) then we probably could've avoided the massive floods of people thinking that just because they showed up they were automatically entitled to a Nabu unit. If we'd found some way to keep the invites to a similar level of what odds / ratio was desired then it probably could've funneled people in, gotten Nabu units into their hands and had at least a few less angry people. Maybe. lol

    Specifically in regards to new product releases, I figure there's probably something that can be done differently to have fewer angry people. But the basic spirit of what Insider was created to be "delivering news and announcements about Razer that can’t be found anywhere else, engaging in discussions For Gamers. By Gamers." and "From getting the most recent updates on Razer products to gaining exclusive access to Beta programs, and even connecting to other fans" ... bringing in anyone and everyone for the Nabu release, including those who barely knew who Razer was, may not have been the best move. It kind of goes against those quotes of what Insider was supposed to be.

    As far as future releases go, I'd be kind of disappointed if the "perks" to Razer|Insider just up and disappeared. Prior to all this Nabu madness I felt that how things were going was spectacular. We felt special here, I wish a lot more people could have experienced the atmosphere that we had. With the halloween game give-aways, the items for the people who guessed correctly regarding Leviathan, etc. There were really good reasons to be here! I'd hate to see any of that go away.

    I'm realizing that this is just getting way too long, and while I'm sure I could add more to it, I don't really have any ideas that are real solutions to the issues. So, for now, these ideas/comments will just have to do and if I think of more than I'll come back later. :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2014
    Mapsle, Khetix, ElstenWeiss and 3 others like this.
  19. Zerachial

    Zerachial Member

    You and I were typing at the same time, huh @kajira

    I put that same quote above ;) lol
     
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  20. kajira

    kajira Mother of Gaming

    lol -- apparently great minds both think alike and choose similar posting times. :D:D:stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:
     
    tredec, Xilef_Zar and zerachial like this.
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