Welcome to The Linux Corner!

Discussion in 'The Linux Corner' started by Deleted member 368765, Feb 27, 2017.

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  1. signsBeigepulse975

    signsBeigepulse975 New Member

    I would like a Razer Laptop for both development and gaming that can:
    1) Dualboot Windows 10 and Linux (prefer Ubuntu/Debian).
    2) Be able to run Linux VM's via virtualbox
    3) Be able to run containers in both Windows and Linux
     
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  2. rofl_no_id

    rofl_no_id New Member

    Ben Stillers voice "DO ITT DO ITT" linux 1+
     
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  3. ryanisnan

    ryanisnan New Member

    This is amazing news. I actually just purchased a new Blade this week (it arrived in my office like 2 hours ago), and am in the process of getting antergos up and running (dual-booting with win 10). I'm in the process of leaving the macOS ecosystem. So far, I've been very, very pleased with the quality and performance of this machine.

    Cheers razer!
     
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  4. signsBeigepulse975

    signsBeigepulse975 New Member

    Right, I forgot, I also run a lot of VM's and would like to support at least up to 64 GB of memory and 6 or 8 cores with multithreading so 12 to 16 threads.
    On the gaming front I'd like to be able to support VR and AR for for development of AR applications. Could it also have dual NICs?
     
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  5. Pinkworldgeo857

    Pinkworldgeo857 New Member

    A large number of developers, like me, waiting for a notebook like the Razer Blade that supports Linux without problems and with an official support. Thank you! I hope there is a rapid development and could soon see a 'developer edition' on the store :)
     
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  6. egmontkob

    egmontkob New Member

    Hi guys,

    I've been a software developer using Linux for 20 years. Just recently brought a new laptop which has plenty of pain points... Based on those, here's my wishlist.

    For me the top priorities are the input and output peripherials -- the more commonly used, the more important. Hence keyboard, trackpad and display are the most important. Whether compiling a piece of software takes 20 or 30 seconds doesn't matter too much, I'll wait for it anyways; whether it takes 20 or 30 minutes doesn't matter too much either, I'll switch to doing something else anyways. Also, keyboard and trackpad are the ones to me where the slightest usability glitch causes a constant frustration.

    - Keyboard (for the record I'd like to mention that I'm touch typing with the standard "asdf jkl;" hand position):
    -- It should be easy to blindly locate any of the keys. E.g. on my previous laptop the four arrow keys were normal sized keys just as most other keys around them, it was a nightmare to blindly locate them. On my current one the Esc key has a tiny (barely tangible) bump, but what's the point in that? I can feel that this key is in the upper left corner. Then it's followed by twelve function and a few other keys with no distinction whatsoever. Function keys should be grouped by 4, or have bumps on some of them etc.
    -- Even on smaller models without a numpad, standalone Home, End, PgUp and PgDn keys are a must for development (perhaps vertically on the right).
    -- Fn + arrow keys should preferably also act as Home, End, PgUp, PgDn.
    -- Volume and brighness control shouldn't require two hands, and preferably shouldn't require stretching one hand either. If there's only one Fn at the bottom left, Fn + arrow, Fn + F11 etc. are a bit fat no-go for these.
    -- Standalone Insert key (yes I do often use that, e.g. in mc).
    -- PrtScrn, Web, Mail, Calc etc. buttons - no, thanks.
    -- 15'' laptops pretty much disagree on the order of Home, End, PgUp, PgDn buttons above the numpad. Some use PU PD H E, some use H E PU PD, some use H PU PD E, some even have the power button in the top right and shift these four to the left (making the leftmost above the Enter and Backspace). It's an utter nightmare to get used from one to the other. I've been using my new laptop for 4 months now and still couldn't mentally switch from H E PU PD to PU PD H E. Make it configurable in BIOS and let users pop out and shuffle the physical keys. I know I could configure it from software (Xkb and such) but thanks no, I don't want to fiddle with it every time some upgrade/reinstallation breaks it, a new virtual machine is launched etc. I'd like to do it once and for all, and BIOS is the only right place for that. (By the way, I strongly prefer the H E PU PD order. My reason is that the rightmost keys are easier to locate with the fingers (without looking) because you can feel the right border of the keyboard. And Page Up/Down are much more frequently used keys and have a more easily reversible action if you accidentally press them than Home and End.)
    -- Obvious, bit clicky tactile feeling when a button is pressed.

    - Touchpad:
    -- A big and good quality touchpad, my preference goes for the Mac-style without standalone buttons.
    -- Located exactly centered around the boundary between G and H, because that's how I can hold my hands at the standard "asdf jkl;" position for touch typing, and not keep accidentally hitting a big touchpad all the time.

    - Display:
    -- At least full HD
    -- Wide viewing angle in both axes (practically IPS)
    -- As big brightness range as possible. Should be able to set from extremely dim (when used in a dark room in the night) to extremely bright (usable outdoors on a sunny day).

    - Ports:
    -- "Old" USB 3 as well as USB 3.1 Type-C (at least 1 of each, preferably more)
    -- Possibility to have the laptop without optical drive (pretty much useless to me)
    -- SD and a separate Micro SD slot (I don't want to carry / lose / spend hours searching for that tiny adapter)
    -- Headphone Jack socket on the left. Some headphones are symmetrical, others have the wire going to the left ear. I'm not aware of a headphone where the cable goes to the right. So why should the cable need to cross to the other side...

    - Others:
    -- Tux key instead of Windows :)
    -- No lights for power on, battery charging, disk activity etc. on the keyboard and display surfaces where they distract my peripherical vision. If there's a LED for these, they should be on the side. On the two main surfaces (keyboard and display), apart from the obvious (the display itself and perhaps keyboard backlight) only LEDs that remind me of something bit unusual (e.g. caps lock on, camera on, battery low) are okay.
    -- Built-in Intel video card only. I've never used the NVidia in my previous and the AMD in my current laptop, they were just a waste of money.
    -- Mac-like magnetic power cord connection.

    Thanks!
     
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  7. Zan_Lynx

    Zan_Lynx New Member

    Why does everyone ask for hardware changes on this thread? Or so it seems to me. That has nothing to do with Linux.

    Really, all that good Linux support needs is support for the unusual hardware. Most of that just needs setup instructions.

    The best thing Razer could do is assign a few engineers to run Linux on a variety of their own hardware and fix everything that annoys them or doesn't work.
     
    kaljade, Her0Zer0, pms1969 and 3 others like this.
  8. someso_no_id

    someso_no_id New Member

    Amazing! I want reasonable price, touchscreen, hardware suitable for open drivers (if possible) and no pre-installed distro. Make fullscrean Unetbootin (or similar software) appear instead after first boot.
     
    _ramsey_ likes this.
  9. Lucas.de_no_id

    Lucas.de_no_id New Member

    Yes build the ultimate MacBook pro challenger. Build à Powerfull 15 inch core I7 with possibilities to extend RAM to 32 GB on ubuntu!!! Dell xps 13 IS too small and too weak for some devs need.
     
    _ramsey_ likes this.
  10. I daily use a Dell XPS13 Develop Edition with Ubuntu 16.04 as my work machine. When I upgrade I’d consider a Razer if it has similar/better offerings than the Dell. I love the fact that Dell offers and supports Ubuntu factory installed, and even includes repos for support--as in I can factory restore to a fully-hardware supported Ubuntu image if things go awry. I get peace of mind that I won’t be stuck because of EUFI and that all hardware will work--no quirks with volume, screen brightness, the touch screen, WiFi, Bluetooth, etc.

    I admit I have never owned a Razer computer before and associate it with high-end gaming. I do game using Steam on my Linux desktop at home, but I’d likely not game on a Razer Linux laptop.

    That said, I’d seriously consider something like the Razer Blade Stealth (perhaps the next models will thinner bezels) as my next daily work laptop if it had factory Linux support.
     
  11. Infinityball_no_id

    Infinityball_no_id New Member

    A 3:2 system with some CUDA cores would be awesome.
     
    _ramsey_ likes this.
  12. ryanisnan

    ryanisnan New Member

    Listen to this man.
     
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  13. nibb_no_id

    nibb_no_id New Member

    GPU Passthrough must work!

    This is a fantastic announcement, and this alone has almost assured me to get a Razer notebook as my next PC to replace my desktop. This is an exciting time for portable, gaming-capable hardware- I could today order a computer with <5% the volume of my i7-3770k, HD7870 machine but with nearly the performance (with the exception of storage capacity).

    When making my next move, Linux compatibility will be very important to me. My current pain is the lack of Intel vPro support on my 3770k, preventing me from using GPU passthrough to game in a Windows VM while using Linux. That, making sure that Windows VMs work as they should for gaming, etc. otherwise, and 4k external monitor support are the last assurances I need before I can buy a Razer laptop to replace my desktop.
     
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  14. lifeEcrubest164

    lifeEcrubest164 New Member

    With Linux support, I would purchase immediately. As it is now, I am on the fence.
     
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  15. mateodelnorte_no_id

    mateodelnorte_no_id New Member

    Apple has three hardware advantages with MacBook Pros over PC laptop competitors right now:

    1. Overall hardware compatibility (drivers)
    2. Battery life
    3. Fingerworks track pad technology

    The first two are very important, and you don't get a solid experience on Linux without them. But until someone else comes up with a comparable touchpad, people are still going to choose MacBooks over PCs.

    PCs do have a potential advantage in that touch screens really can be a productivity improvement. Getting drivers and software right for that may or may not be low hanging fruit.

    On OS, you can probably follow Apple's lead to note you don't have to go full Linux to get improvements over Windows. They chose BSD, but you could just as easily choose Chrome OS and get the *nix compatibility win. For all their effort, Ubuntu still doesn't have as nice an experience as Windows or Mac OS. Choosing a single platform and window manager and investing in the Razer experience could lead to the type of market share gains Apple got and no longer seems interested in maintaining.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2017
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  16. Very happy to see Razer embracing the Linux community! I can't help but feel like it may have been a little forced due to the recent Windows 10 update which added a setting to disable any software from being installed through any means other than the Windows 10 "app store". Really I don't care what the cause is as long as we get better support for Linux on wonderful hardware.

    As far as what I think Razer should do to improve Linux support on their devices, here's my take on it:

    • Switch to Intel wireless chips instead of Killer
    • Add things like RGB control directly into UEFI (or port Synapse to Linux, making it an Electron application would aid this a ton)
    • Talk to Nvidia about supporting intelligent graphics switching between integrated and dedicated GPU on their Linux driver
     
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  17. UseTheForce_no_id

    UseTheForce_no_id New Member

    The Slashdot post that linked here hinted that Razer wants to build a new Linux laptop, rather than make existing laptops work well on Linux. If it's the former, not the latter, here are some hardware suggestions:

    KEYBOARD: One of the most important design aspects for programmers.

    (1) Please don't create a screwy layout, e.g. putting extra keys to the right or left of the right Shift key and making the Shift key shorter, or moving "\|", or any of the other weird stuff laptop manufacturers do to laptop keyboards. Just stick to the standard layout.

    (2) Please figure out how to fit a "tenkeyless" keyboard layout into a 15.6" laptop: include the arrow keys, and Delete/Home/End/PageUp/PageDown above the arrow keys, in their normal position. There's nothing worse than having to use Fn+arrows to get Home/End/PageUp/PageDown. It also sucks when the arrow keys are jammed up against the other keys in the keyboard, rather than being physically separated, such that you can't find them by touch alone. It's OK to join together Insert and Delete into a single double-height key, making Insert accessible using Fn+Delete. Accidentally hitting insert causes more grief than the functionality it provides.

    (3) Please put bumps on one of the home keys on each side, so that you can identify them by touch. (Not all laptops have this.) Even better, make the key caps very slightly concave, like on a desktop keyboard, so that the edges are easier to feel with your fingertips. No laptop keyboard I am aware of does this, presumably because of lack of vertical space, but it's important.

    (4) It would be even better if the keyboard were split / ergonomic -- difficult to do with the arrow keys to the right of the display, but it would make typing for long periods of time much more pleasant.

    (5) Please use switches with a low spring constant (to reduce typing fatigue), but with even a tiny tactile "click".

    (6) Please make sure the touchpad is centered between hands in the home position, rather than horizontally centered on the laptop, to reduce spurious touch events. (A surprising number of laptops get this wrong, and it's really annoying.)

    (7) Please add a soft rubberized pad below the keyboard, like on the Dell XPS 15. This makes typing more comfortable.

    (8) Ideally, please also add a tiny switch at the top of the keyboard that switches between QWERTY and Dvorak, and put the Dvorak labels on the keys too :)

    DISPLAY:

    -- Please use a 3:2 aspect ratio, not 16:9. Code scrolls vertically.

    GPU:

    -- Please only include an Intel integrated GPU. Intel GPUs are the only ones with complete drivers developed by the manufacturer, incorporated into the Linux kernel. A discrete Nvidia GPU is just a waste of money. A Thunderbolt port can be included so that an external discrete GPU can be connected if necessary.

    RAM:

    -- Please provide an option for large RAM configurations. I regularly need 64GB-256GB for data processing tasks, which is a common use case for Linux. It's almost impossible to buy a laptop with more than 16GB of RAM today, even now that Kaby Lake supports more than this. 64GB would be a good start.

    PORTS:

    -- Please include only USB 3.1 USB-C ports (several of them). Everything else will soon become obsolete.

    BATTERY:

    -- Pleases include a large, *removable* battery, with the option of installing a double-sized battery pack that sticks out the back of the laptop, for coding on long plane trips, etc.

    OS:

    -- Please provide Fedora as another option, not everybody loves Ubuntu! (The first thing I would do after buying an Ubuntu or Windows laptop is to install Fedora, but it would be nice to not have to go through this rigmarole.)
     
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  18. _ramsey_

    _ramsey_ Active Member

    Wow! Look at all these "New Member" since:Today & Yesterday. Welcome to the board everyone!
     
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  19. germ65

    germ65 New Member

    Well, I don't know if this is just a marketing scam or if you are really serious. Talk is cheap, execution will require serious work.

    You say you want to support Linux. Great. This means:
    - you commit to provide Linux drivers for the latest and greatest hardware features at the time the product launches
    - we can order a laptop either with Windows or Linux pre-installed, or dual-boot
    - you have tested your hardware with major Linux distributions and everything works perfectly

    In terms of hardware, here's my view of what a professional laptop should have in 2017:

    - 15" model: 7th generation Intel chips, up to, at the very minimum, 32 GB of user replaceable, non-soldered RAM in two DIMM slots, cutting-edge GPU (Pascal-based NVIDIA), at least one USB-C Thunderbolt 3 port with 4 lanes and full 40 Gbps speed. At least one USB-A 3.1 port. Option for Xeon processor with ECC RAM+NVIDIA Quadro. 100 Wh battery. Hi-res screen. Superb (Apple quality) trackpad. Keyboard with numeric keypad. Good quality keys with backlighting (don't care about funky colors). Two ultra-fast NVME PCIe SSD (write speed> 2500 MB/s) bays using standard, non-proprietary interface. Thin bezels on the sides of the screen, but not on the top, where the hi-res webcam is installed. Two microphones. Reasonable speakers. Optional additional 7mm SATA bay. Case just as big as it needs to be to accommodate all this, with the utmost care paid to thermal management so that the ultra-low-noise fans never become more than just barely audible when CPU+GPU work at full speed for hours without any throttling. Case is designed for easy access and service by user.

    - 13" model. Same as above but less powerful CPU/GPU options--still 32 GB RAM. Fewer storage bays. No numeric keypad. Smaller battery. Cheaper.

    17" model: I don't care for it!

    Who said this was going to be easy?
     
  20. razortray

    razortray New Member

    If this Linux support is aimed at developers then try something a bit radical; put the trackpad above the keyboard instead of below. Alternatively, make it so the trackpad and keyboard can swap places as needed.

    Having the trackpad above the keypad would eliminate the problems that many keyboard users have with 'random mouse events'.

    Also, having removable keyboard and trackpad would create a market for third party customised keyboards and trackpads. That way almost everybody could get exactly the keyboard/trackpad they heart desires. Obviously, the connector used to achieve this removability would need to be an open standard such as USB.

    There are many suggestions already made here that are well worthwhile considering. Some not so much. Some not too practical ... yet. For example: 256GB RAM.
     
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